Bassassin Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Woodinblack said: If you had talked to Mr Hall, you would probably understand! Well, I have (which is where my understanding of RIC's position on all copies comes from) and I don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 2 hours ago, prowla said: The thing is that RIC tradmarked some of their (ahem) trademark design features, including the headstock and TRC shape. Thus the recent copies (including Rockinbetter & Retrovibe) infringe that; however, the vintage Japanese ones pre-date the trademarks being registered and so do not. In part though that's the point I was making. A counterfeit is, by legal definition, an imitation item which is knowingly being passed off as genuine. None of the vintage or current copies pretended they were actual Rickenbackers, ergo they are not, and cannot be considered to be, counterfeit, regardless of infringing RIC's copyrights. I'm very familiar (as you know!) with the various grey areas in RIC's trademark situation but I expect their approach regarding actual legally-defined counterfeits involves other areas of law beyond the cease & desist letters that copy makers/sellers get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 28 minutes ago, Bassassin said: In part though that's the point I was making. A counterfeit is, by legal definition, an imitation item which is knowingly being passed off as genuine. None of the vintage or current copies pretended they were actual Rickenbackers, ergo they are not, and cannot be considered to be, counterfeit, regardless of infringing RIC's copyrights. I'm very familiar (as you know!) with the various grey areas in RIC's trademark situation but I expect their approach regarding actual legally-defined counterfeits involves other areas of law beyond the cease & desist letters that copy makers/sellers get. Yes, you're right - there is a difference between a copy and a counterfeit. The amusing thing is the current counterfeits are less like the real thing than the old copies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikNik Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 hour ago, prowla said: Yes, you're right - there is a difference between a copy and a counterfeit. The amusing thing is the current counterfeits are less like the real thing than the old copies! What are these counterfeits you speak of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikNik Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 20 hours ago, Doctor J said: I had an entirely cordial exchange with him, also via the forum. I had a small neck issue with a 4003 I had asked about. He contacted me directly and offered to personally inspect it as he was going to be holidaying in Ireland in the not-too-distant future. Top man. Really? He's coming to see you, in Ireland, to personally inspect your 4003? Mind - blown. Methinks you are being facetious. JH does not do 'cordial'. Unless it's Roses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, NikNik said: Really? He's coming to see you, in Ireland, to personally inspect your 4003? Mind - blown. Methinks you are being facetious. JH does not do 'cordial'. Unless it's Roses. Past-tense. You can think what you like, but Hall cares about his product and backs it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky 4000 Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 6 hours ago, drTStingray said: The merciless slaying of this CEO on here does smack a bit of artists (painters) attacking windmills in the olden days..... or even school kids bemoaning a particular headteacher 😀 Fair one. 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikNik Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said: Fair one. 😃 I get that you are both, maybe, defenders of the RIC faith but there is no 'slaying' taking place. There's just a discussion of JH taking place. I have no respect for the man whatsoever yet some of you appear to be taking umbrage over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky 4000 Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, NikNik said: I get that you are both, maybe, defenders of the RIC faith but there is no 'slaying' taking place. There's just a discussion of JH taking place. I have no respect for the man whatsoever yet some of you appear to be taking umbrage over it. No no, not me. I'm just taking the pee. Please see post #1 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Rickenbacker? Don’t believe I have ever heard of them.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I'm no defender, I owned one and eventually sold it on. I don't see another one in my future. I just gave an honest account of my interaction with the man which some seem not want to believe, for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikNik Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, Doctor J said: I'm no defender, I owned one and eventually sold it on. I don't see another one in my future. I just gave an honest account of my interaction with the man which some seem not want to believe, for whatever reason. Fair enough. I apologise for being flippant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I've never had any interactions with Rickenbacker. But I do have 7 Ric basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 A Rickenbacker was the first bass I played through an amp. I was about 15, the place was in the Baldwin Burns showroom under Centre Point in central London. That was also the last time I played one. /memory lane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 7 hours ago, NikNik said: What are these counterfeits you speak of? The trashy-looking Chinese knockoffs, which are sold badged as Rickenbacker through outlets like AliExpress. They're crap counterfeits, but counterfeits nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said: No no, not me. I'm just taking the pee. Please see post #1 👍 Yeah me too - and I'm not a defender either - never owned one or played one - always liked their sound (in some people's hands) and their quirky Art Deco looks. I do, like others who've posted, admire firms which try and protect their products and also as a result their existing and potential customers - and I can understand how that can annoy people who want to buy copies and counterfeits of the real thing. Presumably the main point is these would be cheaper - I guess you just have to save up and buy the real thing if you want one - and plan to sell it later. Edited May 6, 2019 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 12 hours ago, chris_b said: A Rickenbacker was the first bass I played through an amp. I was about 15, the place was in the Baldwin Burns showroom under Centre Point in central London. That was also the last time I played one. /memory lane Glad to see it made an impression! I bought my 1st Ric bass at 17 and I've still got it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I've never really hankered after a Ric. Quite like how they look but never played one. I had a Jolana Ric-a-like for a while but it went back to a very happy previous owner. Last week I saw the acid jazz band Corduroy at Chinnerys in Southend and Richard Searle was using one - when I've seen them before he was using a Les Paul bass - and it sounded absolutely fantastic, exactly like a Ric should. It has got me more curious now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 18 minutes ago, Paul S said: I've never really hankered after a Ric. Quite like how they look but never played one. I had a Jolana Ric-a-like for a while but it went back to a very happy previous owner. Last week I saw the acid jazz band Corduroy at Chinnerys in Southend and Richard Searle was using one - when I've seen them before he was using a Les Paul bass - and it sounded absolutely fantastic, exactly like a Ric should. It has got me more curious now. Don't judge a Ric by having had a copy; a real one is a very fine instrument. I usually take one along if I go to a Bass Bash (I guess Surrey will be the next one). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I'm hoping to go so look forward to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Paul S said: I'm hoping to go so look forward to that. I've been to the past two and it's in my calendar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikNik Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 (edited) Anyway, back to John Hall. One thing that I have to admire about him is his ability to stay away from the internet these days, ever since he spat the dummy on RRF over the badly-made 4003S models his company was making at the time. And he's never been seen since. Well, maybe on the Facebook group but I wouldn't know. And he's still coming up in searches as CEO. Poor Ben, the Prince Charles of RIC, destined never to accede to the throne until the king has shuffled off this mortal coil. Knowing Wee John, he'll be using the family billions to find a way to live on after his body's given up the ghost. Edited May 7, 2019 by NikNik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 The only possibility I would play a Rick is if the cover came off (if I had a spare 2 hours), The bridge was the HipShot replacement. The rubbish Rickofart pickups were replaced, and the neck was replaced to a single truss rod neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I had a Hipshot Ric replacement bridge. I didn’t find it all that TBH. A lot of transverse movement in the saddles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 ... Also the twin truss rod neck was stable and true, best neck I’ve known, but I like the parallel. I did the cap mod on the pups and that made it sound rubbish. I did two things to change it (after reading stuff here) and both of them weren’t great. What I should’ve done was to give it a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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