christhammer666 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 recently joined a friends band who are signed to a European label, Things are going great writing a 3rd album etc. I have always been a big no-no when it comes to the pay2play and when I do gig I don't mind getting paid only a few quid ie petrol money and a few beers. We have been offered a few tours over in Europe, One with a band called Six feet under (big death metal band in the states) weve been asked for 6000 euros for 9 date trek !!!!!!!!! There have been other thrown around and they are all if you want the tour its big ££££££££££ personally think the whole thing stinks......Opinions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidder652003 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 pretty awful i suppose but could you make more than that selling your merchandise to the "guaranteed" large crowds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 6k€ and you probably still have to pay for travel, accommodation and subsistence on top of that? That's a lot of T-shirts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christhammer666 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Yeah if we could be 100% certain of merch sales it wouldnt be to bad.I can afford the expenses of bands (ie rehearsal fees) but cant afford that financial risk.And apart from that even if I had the money I don't think I would want to pay it on principle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Oh if only OldGit were here... he had a great argument in favour of p2p, I wish I could remember it. 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 i was under the impression that a lot of bands buy there way on to big tours such as this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christhammer666 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 They most probably do,I just think its a bit of a p*** take to be honest.I don't mind going paying for flights and hotels ,sell a bit or merch and hopefully break even but to pay a big wedge for the privelige ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Is that c£5k for the band? For a four piece it works out at £1250 each? That's about £550/£100 per gig. What %age of the door do you get? How big are the venues? What's the predicted return? May be worth a gamble if these are known, it's similar to putting on your own gig where you have to outlay before the gig. However, you've got travel and accommodation expenses on top and you have to take time off work? Do the sums. I don't think this is pay to play as such, it's more of buying into a commercial project for a decent share of the profits. I would hope!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Chris, you're right it stinks. You are being taken advantage of, bullied and ripped-off. But. . . this always was the norm for many big tours in years gone by. Also if you start to go down better with the fans than the main band they'll throw you off the tour. It's not fair but neither was Don Arden holding people halfway out of open second floor windows or the contract that Van Morrison signed that gives him a minute percentage of the royalties of many of his early hits (the list goes on for ever). . . . as they say "that's show business". You have to decide if you're just paying for the ride or if you will actually get something positive and worthwhile out of this experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorsetBlue Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Not completely the norm: [url="http://loudwire.com/iron-maiden-steve-harris-pay-to-play-just-wrong/"]http://loudwire.com/iron-maiden-steve-harris-pay-to-play-just-wrong/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hasn't this always the norm ? You 'buy' yourself on to the tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 It's business, the "industry' part of the 'music industry', if you're certain the exposure will bring you into the big time it will be money well spent, if. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I'd say this is pretty normal..... I'm booking theatre gigs for next year where I have to pay a % up front for the hire of the theatre/staff/tech crew. We'll sell tickets and make good money on merch..... same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Yeah this is just a "buy on", although the fact that it's being offered makes this a bit weirder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidder652003 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just a thought...shouldn't the record label pay for the tour? Thought not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 This used to be pretty regular, not sure so much nowadays as haven`t heard of it occuring recently til this thread. But why not do it yourselves. We did a mini-tour of Germany in September, all organised by ourselves, and made enough money on gigs/merch sales to pay for it all, including hiring a van & driver and hotels for the band and said driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christhammer666 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 @skidder exactly. they said about recording an album my first question was so how much are the label putting in @lozz they did a headline tour abroad last year and lost a fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 from personal experience.....we got an "advance" which we had to pay back. Out of the advance we had to pay travel and accomidation expenses or fund these things out of our own pockets. It was a small deal and not a lot of money up front so we part funded going on tour by doing deals such as sponsership from niche clothing companies. Most of our advance went on legal stuff followed by recording followed by bits of needed rather than wanted equipment. In hindsite if I could just throw my fair share of 6000 euros in and look at it as a busmans holiday that would have been better off in the long run. Most of the band at the time had day jobs so we were more or less doing this anyway. You havnt got some dick from the record company rolling around stoned out of his box making f***wit decisions on your behalf so this could be a great adventure for you and your band. You only live once so I would say go for it. Get your CDs ready and boxed, dont sell for more than £3-4 each ( no one will buy first time around CDs for any more IMO). Have your website and FB page ready (we had none of the above!!!). Book the time off work and get out there. If you lose your job, get another one when you get back. Its now or never. There are experiences to be had and benifit from long term that you will never get otherwise. If the band you are supporting have a big fan base you get to advertise yourself for what is a reletivly small amount. I'd say go for it. One day if things go well you could be chargeing your support acts to help fund your touring. Your money wont be going into the other bands piss up fund (well maybe a few quid!) but probably on the venue hire/pa/sound crew the list goes on. But yes.....go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christhammer666 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 I wish I had your confidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I think this has always been the model, and it probably made sense when you could hope for an increase of record sales through reaching a large audience, potentially receptive to what you do. Now, when those record sales are replaced with downloads and streaming for which you get sod all, I think it's fair to ask 'what's in it for us?'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christhammer666 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Spot on NickD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 [quote name='christhammer666' timestamp='1479726254' post='3178702'] I wish I had your confidence [/quote] Unfortunately if you don't have that "confidence" then you are probably never going to have any chance of "making it". Buying on to a tour was always the norm in the past. It's partly how the headlining band finance the tour in the first place. With no support band buying on then there's probably no tour at all. And others are right in saying that this is what your record label should be paying for (recoupable from your sales of course). However IME these days most record labels simply aren't worth the bother, because they just don't have the financial resources required to make it worth a band's while signing to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Get a good accountant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Bands have always had to pay to get support slots with name bands. It used to be the record companies that stumped up the cash to buy a band onto a tour & then added that to all the other stuff the band owed them, whereas in these days of self financed & self promoted bands the money has to be paid upfront by the band themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 IIRC the buy-on for Skid Row, when they supported Bon Jovi on the New Jersey tour back in 1989, was $50,000.00. In that case it was financed by the record company and definately paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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