Whats really Necessary

[Kevin Dean]

Considering my poor back & limited time to set stuff up on pub gigs , I have a resonable PA with powered subs & I'm happy with the overall sound quality .But recently I saw a local band that had very basic 300w PA Guitar & bass had entry level stuff & the sound quality wasn't great , but they had the place packed & were just pure entertainment . My question is, are the band the only people that appreciate the sound quality ? Or do the punters just want to recognise the songs & see a animated band & everyone just has a good old knees up .

[4stringslow]

I've been to see what I've thought were some pretty ropey pub bands but my (non musician) friends thought they were fantastic.

My take on this is that when people hear a song they know, they actually hear their memory of it. So unless the band makes real howling mistakes any slight mistakes or poor bit of timing is completely overlooked because the punters are replaying their memories of the song to the sight of the live band - especially when the alcohol kicks in!

How many of us have made a mistake at a gig and no one noticed? I know I have.

Any gigging musician is likely to be far more critical and therefore notice things like mistakes and poor sound balance that the average punter would miss completely. So yes, I'd say they just want to hear songs they know, have a few beers and a good old knees up.

Edited August 10, 2016 by 4stringslow

[TimR]

Yes.

The only people who know what you're supposed to be playing are the people playing it.

[HowieBass]

I would expect musicians to be 'active' listeners where we almost can't help deconstructing a song/performance in much the same way that a painter looks at how paint's been applied to a canvas with works exhibited in a gallery (I certainly do anyway... I even look at how well a canvas has been stretched when it's not in a frame). So yes, when you create in a particular medium I think you're bound to notice the shortcomings, and indeed the triumphs, far more keenly.

[Kevin Dean]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1470860818' post='3109065']
I've been to see what I've thought were some pretty ropey pub bands but my (non musician) friends thought they were fantastic.

My take on this is that when people hear a song they know, they actually hear their memory of it. So unless the band makes real howling mistakes any slight mistakes or poor bit of timing is completely overlooked because the punters are replaying their memories of the song to the sight of the live band - especially when the alcohol kicks in!

How many of us have made a mistake at a gig and no one noticed? I know I have.

Any gigging musician is likely to be far more critical and therefore notice things like mistakes and poor sound balance that the average punter would miss completely. So yes, I'd say they just want to hear songs they know, have a few beers and a good old knees up.
[/quote] I think that is spot on .

Edited August 10, 2016 by Kevin Dean

[Mykesbass]

An apostrophe

[OddBass65]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1470866803' post='3109120']
An apostrophe
[/quote]

Also a question-mark.

Back on topic, obviously what's necessary is the band playing stuff people want to hear...once the rig gets across the vocals and the basic sound of the song, it'll do.
The question is then how much more than 'It'll do' is needed to make the musicians in the audience happy...

Edited August 10, 2016 by OddBass65

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1470860818' post='3109065']
My take on this is that when people hear a song they know, they actually hear their memory of it.
[/quote]

I think you've nailed a whole world of covers threads there.

As for the OP's specific question, yes, it's only us who notice.

[peteb]

Actually ot depends on the audience. If you get a crowd in a city centre pub who don't normally watch bands, then anyone bashing out energetic but recognisable versions of songs they can sing along to will do. But play in a pub where you get the same crowd watching bands every week then, believe me that's another story. They may not know exactly the reason why one band is better than another but they are quite capable of telling the difference.

There is a reason why better sounding, better quality bands draw bigger audiences and get paid more...

[blue]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1470860097' post='3109060']
Considering my poor back & limited time to set stuff up on pub gigs , I have a resonable PA with powered subs & I'm happy with the overall sound quality .But recently I saw a local band that had very basic 300w PA Guitar & bass had entry level stuff & the sound quality wasn't great , but they had the place packed & were just pure entertainment . My question is, are the band the only people that appreciate the sound quality ? Or do the punters just want to recognise the songs & see a animated band & everyone just has a good old knees up .
[/quote]

I think punters like good sound quality, however I don't think they know what it is or how it's achieved.

I would say , don't scale back because you heard a pub band on a good night.

Any system your using that will give you more control and the ability to manipulate and adapt your sound to different rooms is best.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1470875123' post='3109150']
Actually ot depends on the audience. If you get a crowd in a city centre pub who don't normally watch bands, then anyone bashing out energetic but recognisable versions of songs they can sing along to will do. But play in a pub where you get the same crowd watching bands every week then, believe me that's another story. They may not know exactly the reason why one band is better than another but they are quite capable of telling the difference.

There is a reason why better sounding, better quality bands draw bigger audiences and get paid more...
[/quote]

Agreed 100%

Blue

[Oopsdabassist]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1470883282' post='3109154']
I think punters like good sound quality, however I don't think they know what it is or how it's achieved.

I would say , don't scale back because you heard a pub band on a good night.

Any system your using that will give you more control and the ability to manipulate and adapt your sound to different rooms is best.

Blue
[/quote]

I agree with that

last weekend we played a new place, and we padded out the audience with fellow muso's to please the Landlord, a couple of the band were having an off night and there were some howlers fired off, including a lead break 2 bars out of sync...for the whole solo! At the end of the night we got pats on the back from punter and fellow muso alike.....people hear what they want to hear, and provided you are close...you're golden!

[Barking Spiders]

Yup, I'd say that non-musician punters mostly want to hear familiar tunes they like and see a band with energy who entertain. Sound quality comes a distant third and fancy chops a long way back.

[chris_b]

Haven't we been saying this in cover band threads since 2007?

[luckydog]

As to sound quality, I think the majority of public peeps can't separate it from band quality. That is, they like or don't like the overall package. So if the band is actually good, it's worth ensuring a quality PA etc, otherwise at least some peeps still won't like it but you won't know why. If the band isn't good, the PA can't salvage it and some peeps won't like it and you still won't know why.

If you think the band is any good, use a quality PA !

LD

[Lozz196]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1470860818' post='3109065']
I've been to see what I've thought were some pretty ropey pub bands but my (non musician) friends thought they were fantastic.

My take on this is that when people hear a song they know, they actually hear their memory of it. So unless the band makes real howling mistakes any slight mistakes or poor bit of timing is completely overlooked because the punters are replaying their memories of the song to the sight of the live band - especially when the alcohol kicks in!

How many of us have made a mistake at a gig and no one noticed? I know I have.

Any gigging musician is likely to be far more critical and therefore notice things like mistakes and poor sound balance that the average punter would miss completely. So yes, I'd say they just want to hear songs they know, have a few beers and a good old knees up.
[/quote]

Def spot-on. I`ve seen some pretty average bands, both in playing respects and the sounds they`ve decided to go with, yet the punters have lapped them up, due to playing their fave songs. Rotten band using gear set with rotten eq choices playing Sex On Fire/Dakota badly/out of time equals huge success in most places.

[uk_lefty]

Interesting topic. I think if the band is having a good time, is reasonably competent and is playing to its audience then the audience will enjoy it and will forgive or not notice a whole list of issues and 'could have been betters'. I watch a pub band for the "knees up" and I think there's a level of acceptance among audiences that you are getting entertained by someone who is likely doing this for fun as much as money

[JTUK]

Hmmm upto a point, but most people I know who are into music know the difference between an average band and a good one. They might not know exactly why, but they know when something comes across very well.
They might accept something that isn't so good and not be less precious about it because they get different things out of music and the guys might only just be doing something they can't..and therefore they appreciate that, but they do tend to know when something has 'something'... IME.

If people ask me, I'll tell them what bands to see... they seem to trust the opinion...and by the same token, I think they know a bit more about music than they think they do...

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1470912909' post='3109292']
Rotten band using gear set with rotten eq choices playing Sex On Fire/Dakota badly/out of time equals huge success in most places.
[/quote]

Plenty of bands haven't a clue where the '1' is in Sex On Fire

[bassace]

There's a saying amongst the jazzers that the quality of the band is inversely proportional to the number of cars in the car park. I'm presently playing with a band that, musically, started from small beginnings and still doesnt display a great deal of musical brilliance. But it ain't half popular.

[Kevin Dean]

In my opinion if you have a great animated front man with a good voice that is what most of the punters focus on , & if you don't it doesn't matter how good anyone else is , it's not going to go well .

[dave_bass5]

Ive always felt my band's PA was under par compared to a real decent PA. We did a gig a few years ago with a hired PA. It was a small pub and this guy turned up with a huge (well ,compared to our vocal) PA. we thought it a bit OTT to say the least, but what a tone!!!. Amazing transformation to our overall mix. My lot seem too think as long as the audience can hear us thats good enough, and we had a lot of heated discussions about this and the use of bass bins.

With a smaller set up there can be a tendency to push it too hard, and that can make everything sound less pleasant IMO. This might be ok in a pub or small club where everyone is up for it and half cut, but not at a function where a lot of people might just want to listen and not mosh about on the dance floor. Ive seen bands that have sounded so bad i wouldn't dream of going near the stage/dance floor for fear of loosing my hearing.
As an example we got a new guitarist last year. He turned up with a 18watt H&K tube combo. Bloody loud for such a small box, and he said it would be enough for our gigs. Well, it was loud enough but had no body to it and considering he uses an FX board it was a bloody mess at gig volumes. After a month or so he got a Fender combo and what a difference. He doesnt play any louder but the body is there and everything sound so much cleaner and palatable.

[blue]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1470995680' post='3109816']
In my opinion if you have a great animated front man with a good voice that is what most of the punters focus on , & if you don't it doesn't matter how good anyone else is , it's not going to go well .
[/quote]

Yes, in some cases if a band doesn't have a "Star" it can be tough.

Not having a "Star" meaning someone that can entertain, is personable and can engage the crowd with the band.is a weak point for a lot of local bands.

Blue

[blue]

And having a decent PA is not where it ends We're lucky we gave a dedicated sound tech with us. Yes at the bar level we have a paid sound tech.

My point, what good is a good PA if you don't have someone with the band that can run the board, understands sound and how to manage and maintain it.

Blue

Edited August 13, 2016 by blue

[Kevin Dean]

Having a Roland GR55 I started looking at the bass Mod & pre amp capabilities , & I have to say i'm very impressed . For average pub gigs I no longer use 1 x flight cased bass amp 1 x bass cab, 1 x active sub , 1 x powered monitor , & out of accessories 4 x mic stands , 4 mics with loads of leads all totaling to 210 lbs in weight . For the life of me I don't know why i had so much stuff in the accessory bag . All of this makes quite a few less trips to the Van , setting up is quicker & to my ears no difference in the sound quality ..Our Guitarist has even got rid of His Marshal 4 x 12 & got Himself a 1 x12" combo ...Happy days