drTStingray Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) Of course the real difference is the bass player is playing an electric bass whereas real jazzers would be playing an upright (and many would be getting away with even more simply because their questionable 'passing tone' choices are far less audible). Overall, I think it's a nice example of late 60s/early 70s Rock/pop/blues/soul players doing a take on a jazzy song - there are loads of examples and many are quite nice. I'm quite a jazz fan but don't get hung up on stuff like Moondance. In the same way Mustang Sally is a decent soul song if you don't let rock guitarists anywhere near it. I did listen to Moondance properly and am not sure if the acoustic guitar doesn't give the impression of the bass and drums (which are quite fluid and loose) being out of time because it is rather regimented and probably too high in the mix as well. Not sure why the bass drops out as it does - perhaps it clashed with something in those bits? Anyway I like playing Moondance (and Mustang Sally) and it seems audiences like them as well so win win I guess!! Edited July 31, 2016 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1469923606' post='3102091'] I thought Mrs Tiggie Winkle's work on Bitches Brew was sublime! [/quote] Aha now you're talking!!! Very experimental! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 [quote name='grumpyguts' timestamp='1469876744' post='3101670'] Ok, so what's the problem with it? [/quote] Nothing. A few blokes on a forum don't like it, 'tis all. /shrug/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 [quote name='barkin' timestamp='1469950783' post='3102149'] Nothing. A few blokes on a forum don't like it, 'tis all. /shrug/ [/quote] And sanity is restored. Only for a second mind cos this is the World Wide WundaWeb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Fascinating article here from sound on sound. [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/people/van-morrison-moondance"]http://www.soundonsound.com/people/van-morrison-moondance[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 [quote name='barkin' timestamp='1469950783' post='3102149'] Nothing. A few blokes on a forum don't like it, 'tis all. /shrug/ [/quote] Yeah. But they are REALLY important ones :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagsieblue Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) This has been excellently covered in The Majors Bootcamp - one of the best resources around anywhere for me. Has anybody heard from The Major recently by the way? Link to the excellent series here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/74284-the-majors-bass-boot-camp-session-index-1-36/"]http://basschat.co.u...ion-index-1-36/[/url] Link to Moondance analysis here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/130899-the-majors-bass-boot-camp-session-34/"]http://basschat.co.u...amp-session-34/[/url] Edited July 31, 2016 by bagsieblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) Discussion about the bassist here .... https://www.talkbass.com/threads/john-klingberg.389174/ --- Question is , is the imperfection in the line , perfection Edited July 31, 2016 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted August 7, 2016 Author Share Posted August 7, 2016 Whther you oike it or dont like it detracts away from my original point....... Im quite sure those who play it at gogs do so, well and in time.... My original point was that the bass players timing is truly awful, way off, hesitant, his incidentals questionable..... A song i had always listened to with a confident reassuranc of " oh its vans moon dance" has now been replaced with "oh, its vans ropey bass player"...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Seriously dodgy vocals, seriously dodgy lyrics.... A diamond all 'round really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 (edited) I'm not a big fan of the song. It reminds me of a couple of experiences in my student days of jamming with people who decided they were going to get into jazz without having bothered to listen to any jazz! For some reason, this song always crops up in that situation. I actually like the idea of jazz-influenced pop, but I can think of some much more enjoyable examples, like some of Joni Mitchell's output. Edited August 7, 2016 by Beer of the Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1470573618' post='3106785'] I'm not a big fan of the song. It reminds me of a couple of experiences in my student days of jamming with people who decided they were going to get into jazz without having bothered to listen to any jazz! For some reason, this song always crops up in that situation. I actually like the idea of jazz-influenced pop, but I can think of some much more enjoyable examples, like some of Joni Mitchell's output. [/quote] All you've gotta do is stick a 7th and another number on a chord and it becomes jazz. It's easy really! Don't listen to all these jazz guys who want to make it seem like a mystery. They just want to seem intellectual and more talented than the rest of us! It's as easy Katy Perry songs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1470575977' post='3106817'] All you've gotta do is stick a 7th and another number on a chord and it becomes jazz. It's easy really! Don't listen to all these jazz guys who want to make it seem like a mystery. They just want to seem intellectual and more talented than the rest of us! It's as easy Katy Perry songs! [/quote] Good-natured trolling aside; I've had the misfortune to meet not a few folk in my career who actually subscribe to that view. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 (edited) aaaand...for all the bass part is extremely sloppy; the note choices are sound. There's nothing musically wrong with it. Could other choices have sounded better in context? Perhaps, yeah. In fact, undoubtedly in the context of a pop song. The issue as I see it is: - jazzers have it thrown in their face by non-jazzers both as a jazz tune and as an example of an awesome walking jazz line; when it's neither. This has bred a bit of resentment I guess. - rock bassists who are used to hearing diatonic motion between roots check out the line and their ears aren't used to chromatic approach notes (which have been a feature of western music for centuries - jazz didn't invent them) so they think wtf?! Sounds weird?! For my money, the g# to a is, whilst absolutely fine musically, misjudged in the pop song context. Edited August 7, 2016 by The Jaywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 [quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1470584514' post='3106900'] Good-natured trolling aside; I've had the misfortune to meet not a few folk in my career who actually subscribe to that view. Sad. [/quote] ha ha really. I'd love to meet them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted August 7, 2016 Author Share Posted August 7, 2016 (edited) Frigg the notes! he can't play in time ! And no, behind, to the side, underneath, a week next Tuesday... Doesn't count. It's not intentional meandering, it's plain slop.!!! pAHhhh! Mr Morrison , I bid you and your bass monkey good day sir! (Waltzes off in a girly blob strop) Edited August 7, 2016 by Wonky2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 I gigged it once, as a dep at a dinner event, and having noticed that I wasn't 'jazzing' it enough, the singer/keys guys shouted "walk man, walk". I remember it as THE low point in a 25 year bass playing journey. It's a great song as it stands, but it seems to have a very odd effect on a certain type of musician.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 [quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1470602258' post='3107069'] I remember it as THE low point in a 25 year bass playing journey. [/quote] And just to clarify, that low point is up against my early 80's hair-do catching fire whilst doing a Taylor on stage at City Poly in 1982, and pulling over an entire Trace rig (2 x cabs + head) at an audition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 It's all good discussing the intellectual approach to technique and what's right and wrong, but the truth is the song in its recorded format was loved by millions, perhaps if it had been tidier it might not have been, who knows, some things you just can't explain. It's rather like pulling apart the technique and execution of a great sporting moment and saying it was an imperfect technique, regardless of the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 yes yes yes.. Im quite sure i said in the op its a great tune, point was ive never listened closely. To be fair, the general masses are unlikley to deconstruct songs in the way a musician does and will likely take most on earshot as a while peace. But for the musician, who cannot help but listen without isolating parts or focusing on particular bits, it was a bit like waking up next to a kronenburg bird the morning after..... You know 1664..... "She looked 16 from behind but when she turned around......." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 [quote name='Wonky2' timestamp='1470680571' post='3107627'] yes yes yes.. Im quite sure i said in the op its a great tune, point was ive never listened closely. To be fair, the general masses are unlikley to deconstruct songs in the way a musician does and will likely take most on earshot as a while peace. But for the musician, who cannot help but listen without isolating parts or focusing on particular bits, it was a bit like waking up next to a kronenburg bird the morning after..... You know 1664..... "She looked 16 from behind but when she turned around......." [/quote] Excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 To answer the OP..no, never listened to the original... played it a gazillion times tho.. I'm not sure what the point of listening to it would actually be, tbh. Not surprised it might be really rough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Personally I don't care if the timing is out, or the notes are out. If you just listen to it rather than analyse it it's a pleasant up beat song that swings along quite nicely. I wish that I'd written it. There was programme on the radio last week, and Howard Goodall was basically saying that you can follow all the rules there are to come up with a well constructed bit of music, but that that is no guarantee that anyone will like it - and vice-versa. At the end of the day most people listen to music for pleasure, not to analyse it. Did Van Morrison ever actually claim this to be a jazz song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Played it on a dep gig over the weekend and can confirm that it was a crowd-pleaser for young and old. Don't give a grannys grapefruit about the technicalities as our role as a band is to entertain the public and this song did that. I did listen to it and "merge" some of the original lines into my "interpretation" of the bass line. Not one of the punters said anything about the choice of passing notes - they just got up and danced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 We do it in our group, and it seems popular. I am surprised how many people seem to know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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