Norris Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I must admit that I was going to mention his hearing. Maybe the screeching is all he can hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Our guitarist actually has a very good tone, which is just a strat, valve amp and a couple of pedals for effect, but he is too loud. but we can change that occasionally. However, it is because he can't hear it, not that he really wants it to be loud necessarily! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1445805587' post='2894420'] ...Guitarists and drummers wearing ear plugs are also bad news in my experience as well! [/quote] Agree with the majority of your post, but not this - everyone should be wearing ear protection when playing. Even if you think your band is quiet, it's still going to be loud enough to damage your hearing. I'm not usually sensible, but I really don't regret using plugs for the last four decades - some of my contemporaries did not and it's really not at all rock 'n' roll to be deaf or have debilitating tinnitus. /lecture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 [quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1445693064' post='2893470'] In all my 30 years of semi pro gigging have I ever heard such an awful guitar tone. before you all rush to say "get rid of him" or find another band i would say he can actually play and is a good well learned musician its just the f***ing awful sound he gets. [/quote] You've asked him to change and he won't. You want a magic wand, but there isn't one. It doesn't matter if he's the best guitarist in the world, if he sounds so bad that he's making the audience wince then all of his good points are nullified. Why would any audience go to see your band when they can hear the problem and are saying things like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1445805587' post='2894420'] I definitely think there's a issue in bands of individuals (mostly guitarists, singers and drummers) requiring too much in the mix so that the mix sounds unbalanced (compared to a recorded sound) and others turn up to compensate. [/quote] I've been lucky I guess, every band I've been in has operated a protocol of having someone stand out front during sound check to set levels and thereafter a strict ban on anyone altering their volume unilaterally (unless told to do so by a trusted source not standing on the stage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1445820912' post='2894528'] You've asked him to change and he won't. You want a magic wand, but there isn't one. It doesn't matter if he's the best guitarist in the world, if he sounds so bad that he's making the audience wince then all of his good points are nullified. Why would any audience go to see your band when they can hear the problem and are saying things like that? [/quote] Further to this, I don't believe good players sound bad as that is all part of the equation, Of course, there is a subjective element to this... but he seems is be in a very small minority of one..? And if one person is pulling down the rest of the band, then I'm surprised anyone tolerates it. It is clear what the consensus is...and if you wont fix it, you are left moaning about it... indefinitely. Can't see the point of that...better things to waste time on, IMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1445850100' post='2894602'] Further to this, I don't believe good players sound bad as that is all part of the equation, [/quote] Absolutely! You can't be a good musician and also sound bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHW Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 We deal with a fairly similar thing in our band. Guitarist one is fine, and is my supporter in the quest to get guitarist 2's sound right. For me it's the difference between what might sound great when he is at low volume at home, setting the gain quite high and getting quite a pleasing tone and what then doesn't translate to gig volume. At gig volume this turns into an indistinct fizz, with occasional screeches. His response when the sound disappears into the mix is to turn up the volume. It is a work in progress (2 years so far) but I finally managed to get him to use one of his "clean" sounds on a gritty song. It was probably a little too clean tbh but it was clear, and audible, and his solo cut through the mix without deafening screeches. My general solution to guitarist sound problems is to get the buggers to turn the gain down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1445814621' post='2894496'] Agree with the majority of your post, but not this - everyone should be wearing ear protection when playing. Even if you think your band is quiet, it's still going to be loud enough to damage your hearing. I'm not usually sensible, but I really don't regret using plugs for the last four decades - some of my contemporaries did not and it's really not at all rock 'n' roll to be deaf or have debilitating tinnitus. /lecture [/quote] I agree wholeheartedly Discreet. My point was simply that guitarists and drummers wearing ear plugs can often be immune to the amount of noise they're making. I guess the sensible answer is for the whole band to be wearing ear plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1445854794' post='2894653'] I agree wholeheartedly Discreet. My point was simply that guitarists and drummers wearing ear plugs can often be immune to the amount of noise they're making. I guess the sensible answer is for the whole band to be wearing ear plugs. [/quote] I'd timidly suggest that the 'sensible' answer would be to turn down (or, for drummers, to play less loudly...) to a point where one's hearing is not at risk..! One of the first premises of environmental noise prevention, even in industrial contexts, is elimination at the source wherever reasonably possible. If ear defenders are necessary to that point, there's, to me, obviously a problem. Sound engineers working with kW systems can become exposed to high levels in the course of their work, and need protection, but off stage, or for rehearsals, there should be no need. What is the perceived advantage of such extreme sonic levels..? It's too late for me, as my advancing years, decades of rock and permanent tinnitus make my hearing to be beyond needing protection, but why won't the penny drop for those perfectly well informed before it's too late..? A darned shame, and no use regretting after the event. Once it's lost, it's lost. Yes, I still practise, rehearse and play 'live', but our volume levels (2 guitars, bass, drums, vocals...) are not such as to need ear plugs. We're not daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1445854794' post='2894653'] I guess the sensible answer is for the OP's whole audience to be wearing ear plugs. [/quote] Fixed Edited October 26, 2015 by BassTractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1445695444' post='2893515'] I don't think it's childish. You say you're semi-pro, but If you were fully pro he'd be out straight away. In fact, he wouldn't have got the gig in the first place. If the rest of the band agree with you then he really should go. It's a pain in the arse auditioning people, but in the end it would be well worth it and you'll wonder why you put up with him for so long. [/quote] I have to agree with this. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1445693431' post='2893478'] New guitarist. . . sorted. [/quote] This. Life's too short for being frustrated with your band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1445694915' post='2893507'] So he's been told to look at his tone and volume control a few times before and doesn't respect the views of his bandmates? Get rid mate. There's tonnes of great guitarists out there that won't make you nervous every time you gig. Going out and gigging should be fun for everyone. How are you ok with the fact that your keys player has a meltdown in the middle of the gig shouting at the dude telling him to turn down? It's not normal and it's not ok. This guy is ruining the fun for everyone and he needs to go. [/quote] Nothing more needs to be said than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlank Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Ditched my last band because the new drummer played so loud the guitar player turned up so much that I had to stand at the back of the hall. Yes: Hall. Not a small rehearsal space but a church hall. The drummer was using ear protection because he knew he played so loud. Didn't bother informing us or even try to play quieter. Not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painy Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Good player / bad sound? If you paint a picture using sh#* as your medium, then irrespective of the artistry that goes into the process, the end result will invariably stink! Edited October 27, 2015 by Painy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I don't like to boast (of course I do!) but I play with an excellent drummer who plays quietly or loudly as required and has a good singing voice into the bargain. The man is a treasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randythoades Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I have had the same predicament in the past. I agree with lots of the other answers, start another band using the same personnel to 'force' someone out without the politics. Another solution I have tried (whilst a guitarist, having a 2nd guitarist who wouldn't listen) which has also been suggested is to have everyone go through the PA, either bypassing the amp and going in through a floor processor rather than on the amp, where you have more control on the sound. We had a guitarist with his Marshall and 4x12 cab that sounded terrible, nasally, thin etc so we 'miked up' the amps and turned their volume down to personal monitor stage volume only, then output it through the PA adding in loads of mid and reducing the treble. Lots of comments about how well we sounded. You could get rid of people but if the rest of the band are agreed then you could force him out together, or if you like his company rather than his playing then the PA is a good solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 again thanks for all your input. I think the answers easy really and I have to face up to it. Every guitarist I know, Weather they are from a past band or someone depping with us or me depping with another band all have some issue in the closet somewhere but at least they have some pride and self respect for their tone and volume. They have all obviously taken the time to research whats required and how to use it. Suggestions (although fully appreciated) for various positioning of equipment and PA solutions dont hide the fact that I dont have to do it with other guitarists so its just this guy thats letting the side down. As I still want to be gigging regularly and fufill the gigs already booked up to xmas I think my best bet is for now, wait till nearer the time and have a bit of a meeting with the rest of the band with one of those its me or him jobs. Once again thanks every one for all your input as what you say sums up the reality of the situation and confirms my own personal thoughts. It gives me a nice unbiased oppinion as none of you know me or this guy from adam, so I will show the thread to the others!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 [quote name='randythoades' timestamp='1446034175' post='2896319'] We had a guitarist with his Marshall and 4x12 cab that sounded terrible, nasally, thin etc [/quote] IME there are certain combinations of drive/distortion pedal and valve amp that cause this phenomenon when the pedal is used in front of the preamp rather than in an effects loop. It seems to rob all of the low mids and "body" from the sound, marshalls seem particularly prone to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Well, at least the guitar is not straying into the bass end of the band's frequency spectrum..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Just goes to show that those 10,000 hrs can go nowhere and that a good player needs more than practice to amount to anything. If you haven't got good ears...then everything else matters not a bean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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