rodacademy Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Man! Some folk! Why can people sometimes, when you can't get to rehearse with them, and a big high paying gig coming up, not accept that in certain cases they need to stand aside and let the gig go! I think its quite a selfish thing to not be able to rehearse due to work but not understand that the band in this case would suffer! Its only one gig and they dont need the money! The expectation from the booker is high and the rep of the others and the band is at stake! May be im wrong!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 So they can't rehearse and can't do the gig..?? How sure are you the deps will cover the gig well enough for a prestigous gig that not only pays well, but will affect your reputation, for good or bad..? Not allowing theirselves to be depped may well be a sign of insecurity on their part but most players will allow it as they get out of the committment and there might be a good reason they need to be able to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Either they're afraid of being replaced if the dep does a better job than them, or they're afraid of the band's reputation being harmed if they do a bad job, or just don't like the fact that someone else might get to steal their limelight for an evening. Guitarist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Sounds like a control issue to me, I`ve been in bands where there`s been people who can`t make this, won`t do that, and my policy now is as soon as someone says "I`m not" then I`m off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Whats depped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1398848979' post='2438129'] Whats depped? [/quote] When a player is temporarily substituted when they can't make a gig. Short for "deputising" I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1398849165' post='2438133'] Short for "deputising" I guess. [/quote] Only without getting a cheap silver star to pin on your chest ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Maybe asking their reasons for not wanting to be 'depped' might be a start. Edited April 30, 2014 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1398849165' post='2438133'] When a player is temporarily substituted when they can't make a gig. Short for "deputising" I guess. [/quote] Ahhhh thank you, this thread makes sense to me now! Back to the OP, If I was in the position and needed to be 'depped' I guess I would be nervous of being shown up by the replacement and being kicked out of the band Maybe you could try reassuring him/her that you love them lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1398850510' post='2438148'] Only without getting a cheap silver star to pin on your chest ... [/quote] I've never depped for anyone, but if I ever do, I will wear a cheap silver star with pride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I personally think it is immaturity and obviously some sort of insecurity. He/she obviously is worried about being replaced if the dep player does a better job than them, but to be honest they need to get over themselves for the benefit of the band. I am in the same position over Christmas this year, there are at least two gigs I can't do so far and my band were actually really worried about asking me if I would mind them getting dep player. Personally I am really not bothered, and more than happy for them to play the gigs than give them up because of my selfishness. The dep player is probably as good, if not better than me but I am confident enough that I will not be replaced, they are friends at the end of the day and I am confident enough in the job I do for the band. If you have a busy working band with commitments and members who are busy then I can't see how many bands would get by without having back up dep players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 A band calendar is an excellent way to avoid these situations completely as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1398851351' post='2438161'] Maybe you could try reassuring him/her that you love them lots. [/quote] It's the first thing I'd be doing if I had to cover someone's absence...let them know it's just a logistics issue. Edited April 30, 2014 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1398850510' post='2438148'] Only without getting a cheap silver star to pin on your chest ... [/quote] This might actually be a great idea in this instance - would the offending band member be placated if you forced the dep to wear a cheap silver star embossed with the word "Deputy," to ensure the crowd knew they weren't a regular member? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1398852454' post='2438180'] This might actually be a great idea in this instance - would the offending band member be placated if you forced the dep to wear a cheap silver star embossed with the word "Deputy," to ensure the crowd knew they weren't a regular member? [/quote] I always felt this went a long way towards explaining Thin Lizzy ... [URL=http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/media/Just%20Stuff/Music%20and%20Musicians/ThinLizzylizzy_zps563a179a.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/h4ppyjack/Just%20Stuff/Music%20and%20Musicians/ThinLizzylizzy_zps563a179a.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 If someone persistently misses rehearsals, I'd throw them out and find someone able to commit the time required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 my main concern with using deps is a quality of performance issue, so you've been playing in a band for a number of years, building up to a 2 hour set, I don't really understand how someone can come in with minimal rehearsal and do a good job, or maybe it's just that I couldn't/wouldn't want to do it, it is slightly different for drummers, they can wing it a lot more easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='NJE' timestamp='1398851805' post='2438168'] The dep player is probably as good, if not better than me but I am confident enough that I will not be replaced, they are friends at the end of the day and I am confident enough in the job I do for the band. [/quote] I do quite a lot of dep work and most of it is 'repeat business' from the same bands or 'word of mouth' recommendations from people I've worked with before, so I must be regarded as being able to do a half reasonable job. Deps are there purely to fill a temporary gap in the same way that I may need a plumber for the duration of a piece of work, no more and no less. Replacing the band member permanently is a topic that has never arisen, although it will at some point I'm sure. I dep purely for the money and, as nice as the rest of the people in the band may be, I've got to be brutally honest and say that there's every probability that I'd not want to play with them on a permanent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1398852647' post='2438184'] my main concern with using deps is a quality of performance issue, so you've been playing in a band for a number of years, building up to a 2 hour set, I don't really understand how someone can come in with minimal rehearsal and do a good job, or maybe it's just that I couldn't/wouldn't want to do it, it is slightly different for drummers, they can wing it a lot more easily [/quote] It really depends on the type of band. If it's a covers band then the chances are that I've played most of the material before which gives me a head start. Key shifts can be a PITA with 'familiar' songs, so you have to be able to play it in any key without fumbling. Keeping a close eye on everyone in the band is also useful as you can pick up a lot in visual cues. If it's an originals band then you obviously lose the advantage of 'familiarity' and have to put a lot more work in beforehand. If you get 'zero time' then this is your best option: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1398852113' post='2438176'] A band calendar is an excellent way to avoid these situations completely as well... [/quote] This relies entirely upon band members filling stuff in. I'm currently working out what to do for a clash for a gigs involving two guys in my band in August because of a calendar snafu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Band calenders are a total must but sometimes something else crops up and you have to allow people to take the time out they want/need without too much persecution. That is, unless the guy has taken on another band and has blatted over your diary, and then you must accept their priorities have changed and you then relegate him to the dep whether he likes it or not. Good guys are always in demand and that is something you need to get your head round, but at least you should know where you are in the pecking order of gigs. If you can't live with that, then something has to break. We have found that deps are great on the first gig as that is where all their energies and effort goes but the second is never as good. This often seals their fate as to whether they get used again and generally then not for gigs that matter, ie, the good payers, which is odd, as these are the gigs the deps wants.... but that is down to them. Now, we have a pad or chart and are quite specific about what the guys need to do...as we don't feel ours is a busking gig by any means. I will generally accept the player coming in can be a degree of wobbly here and there but they had better bring something else along too...like killer sounds, great feel, great soloist..etc There is a known circuit of players who can do it and do it well, and there are guys who just can't and you have to know who is which. As always, the minimum standard is a recommendation and then you have to trust that person who is recommending... If you are going in blind, then you need to be able to spend £150 to get someone to travel and be up to the job. No garauntee, even then, and nor are CV's.... but at least you have tried to set the bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1398854046' post='2438220'] I do quite a lot of dep work and most of it is 'repeat business' from the same bands or 'word of mouth' recommendations from people I've worked with before, so I must be regarded as being able to do a half reasonable job. Deps are there purely to fill a temporary gap in the same way that I may need a plumber for the duration of a piece of work, no more and no less. Replacing the band member permanently is a topic that has never arisen, although it will at some point I'm sure. I dep purely for the money and, as nice as the rest of the people in the band may be, I've got to be brutally honest and say that there's every probability that I'd not want to play with them on a permanent basis. [/quote] Yep, this goes for me too I do now want a Shiny Silver Star Deputy badge though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 One can also go the other way, and have a double band totally based on the fact that not everybody can be there always - just doubling up every role, I mean, but only one of each has to be at a gig. I was in one such a setup during the 80s, and during rehearsals, any number between 4 and 8 could turn up. The rule of course was: at least one of each. This was with classical musicians who tended to lead an irregular life with lots of small jobs in lots of places. IOW you could never totally depend on them, as they had to survive. So this double band seemed like an OK solution. There are implications of course, but the band as a unit can guarantee customers that a complete band will be there and will play at a certain level. Don't remember how it went in our case though. They probably threw me out for being present too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1398856285' post='2438271'] I do now want a Shiny Silver Star Deputy badge though.... [/quote] Get out of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 we had an issue with our drummer once, he double booked so we got a dep in, he wasn't happy about it, but understood it was for the band and it was his fault he had double booked........ he is now the ex drummer... and the dep is our full time drummer.... funny ol' world. sounds insecure to me, but if he is the right man for the job you won't feel the need to replace him, he just needs reassuring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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