paul_5 Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Reverb is a 'get out of jail' card for a lot of vocalists - it can hide bad breathing, tuning issues or loads of other things (in the wrong hands). Maybe she thinks it'll do the same for the bass; that may be her only frame of reference. I remember recording an album with an artist and I'd put the bass down, then I played some Hammond on it too. The artist heard it and said that there was something in the bass that he didn't like (it was a bit too 'dirty', so I suggested a different bass tone so we went for that. A quick rerecording later he still wasn't happy when I sent the demo off. Turns out that the 'dirty bass' bit was coming from the Hammond, not the bass guitar. Just because someone doesn't have the technical vocabulary, or experience of which instrument makes which noise doesn't mean that they are wrong, just ill equipped to communicate in this particular sphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1385330795' post='2287116'] groove.... she want's more low end and less high mids from you..... in other words - Get your bass out of my vocal range! [/quote] Yep, "too clean" and "wanting groove" equate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1385330383' post='2287105'] Does she want you to use Dobly as well? [/quote] Beat me to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolo Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) [quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1385328315' post='2287043'] I don't think I had the mic gain set up right and the result were some extremely distorted and, at times, pretty indistinct recordings. [/quote] [quote]"The bass sounded a bit too clean. I think you should have some more reverb when we perform so there's more of a groove going."[/quote] Could this be an attempt at the humor called Sarcasm? Edit:spelling >.< Edited November 25, 2013 by Bolo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Well now we've established that the singer doesn't have the technical vocabulary necessary to explain what she has in mind, ask her to give you an example of a song that has the sort of sound she's got in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 OK. I asked to singer to tell me more. She sent this email: "To me the bass sounded a bit clinical and too clean. It's prominent, and in time on the recordings and in rehearsal, but on songs like We are Family and Kiss for example we really need to funk it up; I think the bassline needs to have more 'swing and sway' that's what I mean by groove. It seems that you're so focused on getting it right that I worry you're not relaxed and enjoying yourself when you play!" So, the reverb thing may be a bit of a red herring. She says I play in time, but I need more "swing and sway", especially on We are family and Kiss. Interestingly, it's those two songs where I struggle to hook up with the guitarist's playing. I suspect there's more to her comments than meets the eye. I'll try more than one bass at next rehearsal but I don't think "tone" is the issue here. Watch this space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) sounds like you have a delicate task of educating her to the finer arts of low end playing whilst simultaneously appeasing her control freak passive-aggressive lead vocalist tendencies and making her input feel valued and errr .... or .... forgive me for critiqueing your collective band playing without even hearing you, but maybe she is trying to explain that 'the groove isnt quite getting nailed' Edited November 25, 2013 by steve-bbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 [quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1385373592' post='2287394'] sounds like you have a delicate task of educating her to the finer arts of low end playing whilst simultaneously appeasing her control freak passive-aggressive lead vocalist tendencies and making her input feel valued and errr .... or .... forgive me for critiqueing your collective band playing without even hearing you, but maybe she is trying to explain that 'the groove isnt quite getting nailed' [/quote] Well, I think she's right when she says the groove isn't quite getting nailed. Without saying much more on this public forum, I think it might be time for a band meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Obviously something is bothering her. But at the sane time she has no clue how to express what she means. The OP suggested the recording was heavily distorted and a bit of a mess. She cones back with it's too clean, twice. A band meeting would be a bit far, maybe mention it lightly. If you are struggling to hook with guitar, try and simplify and hook with the drums instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntLockyer Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 She just called you white lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 [quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1385376617' post='2287422'] hook with the drums instead. [/quote] This. The guitar should be locking in with the rhythm section not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 As above , with we are family and songs like that, we always say how good the bass groove is, but the guitar work also has to be spot on, just strumming doesn't mean he's doing the chic thing any more favours than a bassist who struggles with it. I may have missed it in this thread but can we hear, or see a vid ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 [quote name='clauster' timestamp='1385376929' post='2287426'] The guitar should be locking in with the rhythm section not the other way around. [/quote] In general, yes. Sounds like syncopation might be an issue. maybe all three of you (bass, drums and guitar) are syncopating, but doing it slightly differently... Music like that needs to be as tight as f*** - long before the singer gets anywhere near it! Maybe practise those two tracks instrumentally, but with a critical ear. Maybe then you'll be able to hear what the singer is referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Ask her why she hasn't said this before, when you're playing live. If you were OK live then just smile and agree with her. Make sure you only send out good recordings of the band in future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 [quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1385329783' post='2287090'] Tell her to stop talking sh*t and concentrate on her bit. [/quote] Top advice, but without my glasses I thought you said concentrate on her tit... [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyd Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) I agree that reverb doesn't sound like the remedy, but she might not be a million miles away. From her email it sounds like she's looking for a slightly bassier, 'dirty' sound. I obviously have no idea if her comments are valid, but it sounds like she's being constructive and polite so I'm not sure if the negativity from some posters is justified. Edited November 25, 2013 by tinyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 [quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1385381607' post='2287485'] sounds like she's being constructive and polite so I'm not sure if the negativity from some posters is justified. [/quote] Might well be the case, a phone call or face to face usually gets to the bottom of things better than emails or texts, or even better, they spend the night together in a hotel. [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 [quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1385381607' post='2287485'] I agree that reverb doesn't sound like the remedy, but she might not be a million miles away. From her email it sounds like she's looking for a slightly bassier, 'dirty' sound. I obviously have no idea if her comments are valid, but it sounds like she's being constructive and polite so I'm not sure if the negativity from some posters is justified. [/quote] its as justified as her not actually stating what the real issue is if she is just trying to be polite and worrying that she might upset or offend her band members if she tries to tell them they arent nailing the groove correctly by fudging it with a non-excuse about 'tone' apologies if my previous comment appreared rather harsh in hindsight but if there is a problem with a song then you need to state constructively what the problem is so the whole band can try and overcome the problem not just make it vaguely aware that something is wrong and try and be all polite about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntLockyer Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 [quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1385381607' post='2287485']I'm not sure if the negativity from some posters is justified. [/quote] Purely fun from my standpoint. I would have replied with "I'm glad you brought that up, I wanted to say I thought you were a little pitchy in the midsection and think you should try a little auto tune to tighten it up a bit" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Yup, it sounds like the others have said, maybe the groove just isn't there. Doesn't mean it's your fault though, however us bassists tend to get the blame for such things, especially as nothing ever sticks to those teflon-coated guitarists! I've struggled with both Drums and Guitar pulling the rhythm about before- it can be hard on a song that needs to groove, as the whole thing can end up feeling weird if you're not on the same page. I would normally say follow the drummer, but this could be bad advice if its the drummer who's not nailing it, and it might end up sounding like it's your fault if the whole rhythm section is wonky. If that's the case you need to have a chat with him! As far as the 'clean and clinical' sound goes, L2000's can cut through the mix quite a bit, I'd suggest using your Fender with some of the tone rolled back for a Motown in the mix thump, that won't jump out as much. Also sounds like she's spoken about this to the others already, not to worry you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I suppose it depends on what you role in the band is, how you got into the band, if the band's genre has a particular sound requirement - and how you sit in the pecking order. When I play in a band, I bring my sound along with me. This is how I sound. I will modify it if necessary, but only very slightly. However, if you are in a specific tribute band - then maybe you should play like that band did. Or, if you are a hired hand in the band, you have to do what the person who hired you asks you to do. If you were last in to the band and they want a specific sound - then maybe you have to (at least initially) do what they say. If none of the above apply, then ignore and do your own thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Actually, the BEST advice I could give you is to post one of the tracks up here. There are some very experienced musicians on this site and as a collective I think Basschat would be able to offer very constuctive advice on what may be wrong, be it groove, your tone, etc. that would be far more informative than simply suggesting reverb. I can understand if you didn't want to however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 [quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1385384788' post='2287537'] Actually, the BEST advice I could give you is to post one of the tracks up here. There are some very experienced musicians on this site and as a collective I think Basschat would be able to offer very constuctive advice on what may be wrong, be it groove, your tone, etc. that would be far more informative than simply suggesting reverb. I can understand if you didn't want to however. [/quote] This. We promise to be gentle with you. *crosses fingers behind back* A DI'd bass can sound kind of naked and raw. On the vexed subject of reverb, there are a couple of 'room ambience' settings on my Korg Pandora (I think they're called 'wet' and 'dry') that are great for de-sterilising a bass sound. I'm sure there are equivalents on various studio units and plug-ins - just enough short reverb to suggest a small ambient space, not washes of cathedral spaciousness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 [quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1385383761' post='2287519'] its as justified as her not actually stating what the real issue is if she is just trying to be polite and worrying that she might upset or offend her band members if she tries to tell them they arent nailing the groove correctly by fudging it with a non-excuse about 'tone' apologies if my previous comment appreared rather harsh in hindsight but if there is a problem with a song then you need to state constructively what the problem is so the whole band can try and overcome the problem not just make it vaguely aware that something is wrong and try and be all polite about it [/quote] It's always difficult mind. Our originals lot played Friday gone and on a new one for one reason or another the drummer decided to go nuts on the double bass drum. I hated it, it put me and the guitar right off. Baring in mind we both have to sing and play in time. Right after that song I told him there and then, just plain "don't do that, it wasn't right and it put us off" After he even thanked me for saying it then and how I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 [quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1385390280' post='2287616'] It's always difficult mind. Our originals lot played Friday gone and on a new one for one reason or another the drummer decided to go nuts on the double bass drum. I hated it, it put me and the guitar right off. Baring in mind we both have to sing and play in time. Right after that song I told him there and then, just plain "don't do that, it wasn't right and it put us off" After he even thanked me for saying it then and how I did. [/quote] yes never easy unless you confront it honestly and constructively - but imagine the problem if you had just told him the tone of his bass drum needed a bit more reverb or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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