When Is a Bass Worth it?

[peteb]

I remember speaking to Phil Nixon from Bass Gear a couple of years ago about Fodera basses. I mentioned that I would never buy one but had to admit that the best bass I had ever played was a Fodera. He said that many people had told him that they thought Foderas were unjustifiably expensive and a waste of money! Phil then got them to actually play one and said that on several occasions the same people would come back a couple of months later, having borrowed money and / or sold every bass that they had, and put in an order for a Fodera.

It is not so much the sound of these types of basses, as you can put a top range preamp or new pickups into a Fender for a couple of hundred quid. It is more about the playability, rigidity, feel and attention to detail. You will not get things like a quarter-sawn neck and a flatter radius fingerboard on a standard Fender, yet alone a Squier!

If you think of the most challenging thing that you have to play on your Squier and then pick up a Fodera, you will find that it suddenly seems relatively effortless. It will not turn you in a top player overnight but it will make everything seem a lot easier…

I still would not play £6k for one, but some people will and it is not just because of vanity or snob value…!

Edited August 23, 2013 by peteb

[4 Strings]

On occasion my band records at a local recording studio, there is a beaten up old Fender Musicmaster there. I love it and its in my hands the whole time I'm not actually playing. It has a horrible action (just needs some tlc) but I think I like it because it's 'a beaten up old Fender Musicmaster' (and the short scale is great when you're sitting about). If it was a Hondo it wouldn't have the same appeal at all.

[flyfisher]

Is this the time to mention that playing a cheap bass doesn't seem to have harmed Macca's musical career?

[4000]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1377275637' post='2185756']
I remember speaking to Phil Nixon from Bass Gear a couple of years ago about Fodera basses. I mentioned that I would never buy one but had to admit that the best bass I had ever played was a Fodera. He said that many people had told him that they thought Foderas were unjustifiably expensive and a waste of money! Phil then got them to actually play one and said that on several occasions the same people would come back a couple of months later, having borrowed money and / or sold every bass that they had, and put in an order for a Fodera.

It is not so much the sound of these types of basses, as you can put a top range preamp or new pickups into a Fender for a couple of hundred quid. It is more about the playability, rigidity, feel and attention to detail. You will not get things like a quarter-sawn neck and a flatter radius fingerboard on a standard Fender, yet alone a Squier!

If you think of the most challenging thing that you have to play on your Squier and then pick up a Fodera, you will find that it suddenly seems relatively effortless. It will not turn you in a top player overnight but it will make everything seem a lot easier…

I still would not play £6k for one, but some people will and it is not just because of vanity or snob value…!
[/quote]

It's all about whether the bass works for you, at any price point. I've owned all sorts of basses over my 30-odd years of playing, from Westone, Squier and Hohner to Wal, custom-built Alembic and Sei. I've played thousands of basses in my time. I've played cheap basses that I've really liked, cheap basses I've really hated and everything in between. Same goes for the mid-priced stuff and the expensive stuff. Note I don't say "crap, great and everything in between", because what works (or not) for me may or may not work for you. I've played 4 Foderas, a couple at length, and have only liked one even a little. I haven't liked how they've felt, played, or sounded. The buckeye one at Bass Day I liked a lot, lot less than the Squier P I use for festival gigs, or the Westone Quantum I once had. I did however love most of my Seis & both my Alembics (although I've played some I haven't liked at all). My favourite bass that I've ever played? My Fireglo '72 Ric 4001 by a nautical mile. I'd sooner have it than all the other basses I've played put together. Does that mean it would work for someone else? No, of course not.

The basses I've arguably liked the least from everything I can remember playing have been a Hondo Ric copy and an F Bass, at opposite ends of the price spectrum. People have seem to have this idea that what works for them is a 'better bass' or what doesn't is 'a worse bass'. It isn't. It's only better or worse [i]for them.[/i] It's an extremely simple concept and I don't understand why some people seem to struggle with it so much.

Edited August 23, 2013 by 4000

[W11ATO]

Some great points made on this today but all in all can't help coming to the conclusion that snob value/kudos is probably the no 1 driver, we buy the "best" we can afford.

[tauzero]

In 1987 I'd been playing bass for twelve or thirteen years, had played quite a lot of basses, wasn't actually looking for a new bass, and happened to play a JD Thumb. It was just so good to play that I ended up PXing the basses I had at the time (Precision and Hohner B2) which still paid less than half of it and getting a loan for the rest.

[discreet]

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1377263294' post='2185521']

[/quote]

Wow. Cars like this always remind me of a giant pram.
Which is apt really, because more often than not there's a big baby behind the wheel.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1377251022' post='2185250']

Quality of beard?
Poor/clearly just started shaving/f***ing hipster --> Probably just bought the Jazz because someone convinced them it was "boutique" and/or looks less "mainstream" than a P (or something, I don't know how these pillocks think). Can't actually play the damn thing; too busy posing and looking "ironic" with it.
[/quote]

i just LOLd

[jazzyvee]

I can't help thinking that given a blank cheque to buy any bass our hearts desired we may find that some more expensive basses suddenly become worth having. :-)

[TimR]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1377288711' post='2185974']
I can't help thinking that given a blank cheque to buy any bass our hearts desired we may find that some more expensive basses suddenly become worth having. :-)
[/quote]

I think even if I was a multi millionaire I would still be careful. I had £2k to spend on a bass but found one for £500 that was 'better' than a lot of the £1600 basses I tried out.

[W11ATO]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1377288711' post='2185974']
I can't help thinking that given a blank cheque to buy any bass our hearts desired we may find that some more expensive basses suddenly become worth having. :-)
[/quote]

Spot on.....me too ;-)

[JTUK]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1377251624' post='2185262']
........................... I personally don't see the point in getting a bass custom made by some small guitar firm, especially if it's already a popular design, like a jazz bass, for their skills or because of the special woods that they use.
[/quote]

See, now that is exactly why I would get someone to make me that bass...
Of course, it depends who is building them, but I would expect a FAR better build, a couple of personalised design features,
or a custom config....choice of components.
And if the guy had done a good few before..which is why you would use them so as not to be a guinea pig, then they should be able to give you an
excellent bass.
If it doesn't look better, feel better, sound better and play better all round than over 95% of stuff off a production line, then you have gone to the wrong guy...

[discreet]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377335689' post='2186298']
...I would expect a FAR better build, a couple of personalised design features, or a custom config... choice of components. And if the guy had done a good few before..which is why you would use them so as not to be a guinea pig, then they should be able to give you an excellent bass. If it doesn't look better, feel better, sound better and play better all round than over 95% of stuff off a production line, then you have gone to the wrong guy...
[/quote]

All tru, dat. [i]And [/i]I went to the right guy. Couldn't be happier.

[MacDaddy]

a bass is worth whatever someone will pay for it.

[JTUK]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1377341179' post='2186421']
a bass is worth whatever someone will pay for it.
[/quote]

Not the sales tactic I would want to follow...

Never liked the "they can afford it, so they can pay it" ethic.
It should the same price to all.....not just a certain price to a richer person..and less to someone else...

[molan]

The topic of 'are expensive basses worth the money' comes up all the time and I always find some interesting things to read

As someone who helps out from time to time in a bass shop I see all sorts of basses - probably starting around the £200 used Mex Fenders up to £10K Foderas and all points in between.

I've seen examples of great instruments down at the lower end of the scale and not very nice ones at much higher prices. Some are simple build quality issues, others are just a combination of things that can make an instrument sound great or fabulous to play.

In very broad terms I'd say that there's a decreasing economy of gain in terms of sheer build quality as you move up the scale. Simple stuff really, a £600 used Musicman is not twice as good as a £300 Mex Fender in terms of build or, probably, tonal quality.

Will the owner like it twice as much or play it twice as much because it inspires him, that I really can't say, at this point it immediately becomes much more subjective. Some people spend a fortune on instruments they hardly play whilst others spend hours every day on their cheaper basses - the complete reverse is true as well of course.

From what I've seen it feels like people get more 'involved' with their instruments when they've spent big money on them but that's just my observation based on people I've met personally.

I've never really understood the whole snobbery argument. It tends to get raised by people with lower priced basses about people with ones that are more expensive than theirs. I've experienced this from the good old Mex Fender players about USA Fender owners who, in turn say things about USA Custom Shop owners etc. etc. Equally I've seen all these people look down their noses at each other as well.

Seems a shame as they probably all own nice instruments that suit their needs / wallets and they all enjoy playing them.

In terms of the OP's thoughts about the more mass market CNC type basses becoming more common and slowly removing the higher end instruments from the market I have to say that this hasn't been my experience working in the shop.

In fact in the last week we've sold:

Older Fodera to a high end gigging pro and session player
Nearly new Fodera to another regular gigging player but not a pro
Vintage Wal to a school aged player who's taking his future as a musician very seriously
New F Bass to a touring pro
Used Brubaker to someone who mostly plays at home
New Wood & Tronics to a semi-pro
Ritter Cora to regular gigger but not pro

That's 6 basses in as many days with an average price of about £3K to people ranging from schoolboys to semi-retired and bedroom players to full on gigging pros. Doesnt feel like this signals the death knell of the high end business

N.B. We also sold quite a few 'expensive' amps and cabs.

Oh, And a set of strings to Old Horse Murphy

[Marvin]

Given my circumstances and my playing I don't think I'd feel comfortable paying any more than £500ish for a bass. But that's just me, all the gear in my sig cost barely £700

[funkgod]

A bass is worth it when you pick it up and try it, it says yes to you right away.
it dont matter about the price, if its new or old, or even the build quality ( to a point).

Out of my collection of wals i have kept one, been playing it for 25+years,
i have a modded mex jazz and a G&L that i kept rather than some of the wals
i let go, and about 2ish years ago found a jap jazz fotoflame thats the muts nuts.
its not the money, i just know that i will wait and search another 30 years of playing
before anything as good will pop up,

You know the ones that are right for you, they will sing in your hands,
and do you know what ? without you even knowing it you will prob get rid of it
in your quest for something better, only then after 10 years of looking will you realise
it was the one you let go....

You know the ones that are right for you, they will sing in your hands,
thats when its worth it,

Edited August 24, 2013 by funkgod

[Lowender]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377342224' post='2186441']
Not the sales tactic I would want to follow...

Never liked the "they can afford it, so they can pay it" ethic.
It should the same price to all.....not just a certain price to a richer person..and less to someone else...
[/quote]

Actually, I've done that -- twice. And I know others who've had custom builds. They almost never worked out. And then, good luck selling it. (Though I'd love to work with a major company until they get it right. Are you listening Fender?lol)

The thing is, one never really knows how a guitar is going to come out, when designing it. There are so many variables. How many versions has Fender come out with? Meanwhile, the ones most pros use are the original standard American P and J. Music Man came out with a different concept but then added several others, but the definitive MM sound is still the Ray. I believe Ibanez have a sound as well and they came out with their high end Prestige line, which to me sound no different that the SR500's at half the price.

[Mog]

Its worth it when you don't regret buying it a few weeks later. Simples. Everything else is down to taste/choice.

[Lowender]

Another thing to keep in mond. Sometimes when buying a boutique bass it's easy to be taken in by the "feel." Yes, a Fodera or a Ken Smith or an Alembic have a certain "solidity" to them. But play it long enough and then go back to a Fender and it's like...hmmm, there's something about THAT feel that feels good.

I played an Alembic for a while and its unique broad frequency sound was so attractive. But then I started getting sick of it. I crave a bass that sounded like a bass. Go figure. But I think this may be the reason people so often go back to standard instruments.

[4000]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377335689' post='2186298']
See, now that is exactly why I would get someone to make me that bass...
Of course, it depends who is building them, but I would expect a FAR better build, a couple of personalised design features,
or a custom config....choice of components.
And if the guy had done a good few before..which is why you would use them so as not to be a guinea pig, then they should be able to give you an
excellent bass.
If it doesn't look better, feel better, sound better and play better all round than over 95% of stuff off a production line, then you have gone to the wrong guy...
[/quote]

The only thing I would expect is that it should be better made. The rest is utterly subjective. Personally I like a straight neck with low action so it would be more likely to play better for me, but of course some people don't like that. In terms of looks, that's about aesthetic design sense (not always a talent displayed by luthiers) so could go either way - it may appeal or may not. Sound is so arbitrary - even Martin Petersen will tell you he never really knows what a bass will sound like until it's built, and I trust him more than anyone - so you may end up with a better-sounding bass or you may not. I've had a few custom built basses and they've generally sounded very good but my absolute favourite-sounding basses have generally been off the shelf.

I tend to think of musical instruments in the same way I think of partners. It's not always what you think you want that works best for you and finding the right one can often be a fairly random process.

[4000]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1377347863' post='2186544']
A bass is worth it when you pick it up and try it, it says yes to you right away.
it dont matter about the price, if its new or old, or even the build quality ( to a point).

You know the ones that are right for you, they will sing in your hands,
thats when its worth it,
[/quote]

This, absolutely.

[spinynorman]

I've never understood how Fender get away with charging more for instruments made in America. Amongst country music players in the mid-west US there might be some patriotic appeal, but otherwise the only reason they'd be better is if Fender deliberately make the Mexican ones worse.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377342224' post='2186441']
Not the sales tactic I would want to follow...

Never liked the "they can afford it, so they can pay it" ethic.
It should the same price to all.....not just a certain price to a richer person..and less to someone else...
[/quote]

That would actually be a form of discrimination. But I think the idea is that value is based on what people are willing to pay. I think a Fender Jazz bass would be a lot more affordable if everyone thought it wasn't worth it, same goes for everything. That's why things have the prices they do - You have to work out your cost, and what people are willing to pay, then balance it so it's fair for everyone. I found that out the hard way - Charge too much, make no money, charge too little, make no money.