lowballing .. definition and .. is it insulting ?

[hamfist]

I'm a regular user of this and other forums to sell and buy used gear. In the course of this I have regularly received low offers for stuff I am trying to sell. If it's too low I simply politely decline. If it's low, but I'm really keen to get rid of the item I might just accept.

Today I made a trade offer to a member here and was accused of it being "worse than a lowball". I have to say that I was a bit upset. My offer was on the lowish side, and was slightly advantageous to me as I was not desperate for this guy's item. Also, from things he had said, I knew that the guy seemed very interested in my item.
I thought he had slightly overpriced his item so I offered a trade with 25% more cash coming my way compared to the cash difference in the prices we were both asking on the forum, so no biggie.

Anyway, he clearly felt rather insulted, as if I had made some personal insult, and made this "your offer is worse than a lowball" comment.

So, how exactly how would you define a lowball ?, what is one ? is it insulting, or normal practice than one simply declines if it's too low ? Do we not all offer slightly lower prices in the hopes of getting a bit of a bargain at times ?

It just got me thinking this morning that I really have not felt the slightest insulted whatever price a person might offer me. It's no skin off my nose, and I can simply say no. But it seems that others feel different.
I know that the word "lowball" comes from the US, and my perception of it is that it is a derogatory term.

Interested in your thoughts ..... I really don't want to go around insulting people.

[bigjohn]

[bremen]

I'd be very interested in hearing what folk think, as personally I don't mind being offered a low price; I can just say 'you're having a laugh!' and politely decline.

On the other hand I'm quite shy of offering a low price as some do seem to take it personally.

Also. When you make an offer on a house, right, is an opening offer of 10% below asking about right? Terrified of causing offense, me

[Truckstop]

For me, a lowball offer is less than 25% of the asking price. A lowball tells me that the person doesnt really want the item and is being cheeky on the offchance.

Having said that though, I've offered 25% below the asking price (which was obviously refused) but then negotiated a sensible medium.

It's part of the haggling banter I think. If people get offended at a lowball then they're taking it far too seriously and to be honest show a reluctance to negotiate and miss out on a sale. If you advertise on a forum, you should expect to haggle and advertise a price with that in mind.

Truckstop

[neepheid]

Lowball offers bug me because I take the time to do a bit of research and price my items fairly to start with. I don't do haggling. I make this clear in my listings. If that puts some people off then so be it, but to quote a certain film - "this bloke won't haggle!"

It used to bug me when I worked in pubs/clubs. In one establishment, which in no way was particularly expensive, I used to get people all the time asking if we had any deals/promotions. I used to say, "yeah, the deal is everything is reasonably priced". They didn't look impressed. I couldn't have given less of a f. I was a surly barman, me.

[karlfer]

Difficult one, the buyer generally wants to pay the minimum, seller wants to get the best they can.
If I think somebody is asking too much I just will not even contact them so they could well lose out on a sale.
The one that has been really bugging me this year is the start price on Marcus Millers.
"2002/3/4/" Marcus Miller, now costs £1076, £750 plus postage please"
It didn't cost £1076 in 2003, and they bought it 2nd hand for £450 in 2009, not that that is admitted.
A week later they are bleating because there is not interest. Yet if you offered them a more realistic £600, you are a lowballer!

[thisnameistaken]

I think the people who get angry at what they call 'low-ball' offers are the people who've over-valued their items and as such have received more than one such 'low-ball' offer.

If someone offers me a price too low I'll just politely refuse. It's part of the game and I've got enough stress in my life without getting offended at the slightest provocation.

[evilLordJuju]

I say make your offer - if they don't accept, fine. Who is to say what is lowball and what is overpriced. There are no absolutes in this.

[Wooks79]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1354707347' post='1889313']
I really have not felt the slightest insulted whatever price a person might offer me. It's no skin off my nose, and I can simply say no.
[/quote]

This sums up my opinion. I really would hate to be the type of person who could get wound up by the Internet!

[chris_b]

Low offers are just low offers, but insults on the internet are pretty stupid.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1354708685' post='1889344']
Difficult one, the buyer generally wants to pay the minimum, seller wants to get the best they can.
If I think somebody is asking too much I just will not even contact them so they could well lose out on a sale.
The one that has been really bugging me this year is the start price on Marcus Millers.
"2002/3/4/" Marcus Miller, now costs £1076, £750 plus postage please"
It didn't cost £1076 in 2003, and they bought it 2nd hand for £450 in 2009, not that that is admitted.
A week later they are bleating because there is not interest. Yet if you offered them a more realistic £600, you are a lowballer!
[/quote]

Where do you draw the line though? How much was my '79 Ray new, How much was a '51 P bass new? should they only be sold for those prices forever? Its worth what its worth so it will either hang around or sell to someone else for near the asking price which is their good fortune IMO

[hamfist]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1354709571' post='1889359']
Low offers are just low offers, but insults on the internet are pretty stupid.
[/quote]

Thanks, I feel the same.

It's good to know that most folks do not seem to think I'm out of order if I make a lowish offer. It's also surprising to see how opinions vary so much on this though.

[Conan]

I like a bit of haggling now and again. I would rather have that than no interest at all in the item I was selling! Equally, if I am interested in buying an item but think it is is a bit over-priced or out of my range, I don't see any harm in making a low starting offer.

Depends on how it's phrased though. I once had some newbie basically say "Your bass is only worth £XXX so I'm doing you a favour by offering you this much...".

Needless to say I politely but firmly expressed by disinterest.

As others have said, life is hard enough without going out of your way to find things to get offended or upset by.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Conan

[karlfer]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1354710242' post='1889367']
Where do you draw the line though? How much was my '79 Ray new, How much was a '51 P bass new? should they only be sold for those prices forever? Its worth what its worth so it will either hang around or sell to someone else for near the asking price which is their good fortune IMO
[/quote]

Absolutely Pete, but to me saying their are a grand new now is part of the game, but they got got to realise people in general aren't daft and measuring against a new price which has rocketted due to increased VAT/exchange rate,is going to alienate some people straight away. They have lost a potential customer.
If the last 5 that have sold have gone at £550/£600, you are doing yourself no favours putting it out at £750/£800.
I am putting up my Schroeder in the new year (incoming Barefaced). The last two failed to sell at £550 and £500. Mine will go out at £450 including cover.
Market decides.
Karl.

[yorks5stringer]

I'll give you 50p for your original post.....

If something is less than £200 and well priced when buying I tend not to haggle, have bought stuff on here at over £400 and negotiated 10% off. If someone when buying something under £200 from me pays full price I've often paid the insurance for them myself.

[Conan]

As this thread demonstrates, most of us are pretty reasonable and fair

[hamfist]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1354712285' post='1889411']
I'll give you 50p for your original post.....
[/quote]

Deal ! I'll PM you my PP address (gift transfer only please ) !

[flyfisher]

Some people are too eager to be offended. A polite 'no thanks' is all that's needed.

[JimBobTTD]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1354718307' post='1889518']
Some people are too eager to be offended. A polite 'no thanks' is all that's needed.
[/quote]

Word. I offered a little over market price for a car that was advertised about a grand too expensive. The seller freaked out, accused me of insulting him, betraying him (?) and then emailed me later to tell me that he had sold the car at his asking price and without some of the extras he had offered me.

Then, to make it all the more amusing, he contacted me a couple of weeks later to offer me another car he had bought on the cheap. And he wanted too much.

[JTUK]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1354708940' post='1889348']
I think the people who get angry at what they call 'low-ball' offers are the people who've over-valued their items and as such have received more than one such 'low-ball' offer.

If someone offers me a price too low I'll just politely refuse. It's part of the game and I've got enough stress in my life without getting offended at the slightest provocation.
[/quote]

Probably this.......
You are always going to get different valuations and people have their own 'style' in dealing... and think all is fair .

I try not to get too worried about... I can always say no if I am selling...and I only want to pay what it is worth to me.
But then I and not a dealer so I don't look for the best price just so I can make out of it.

I generally decide what I think about a sale on the 'relationship's I have with the other party...
and if I don't like way the deal is going, I am not going to be a party to it..

Sometiems that might cost..

[yorks5stringer]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1354714386' post='1889458']
Deal ! I'll PM you my PP address (gift transfer only please ) !
[/quote]

Would you accept 35p now I've slept on it?

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1354721042' post='1889574']
Word. I offered a little over market price for a car that was advertised about a[b] g[b]rand[/b] too expensive.[/b] The seller freaked out, accused me of insulting him, betraying him (?) and then emailed me later to tell me that he had [b]sold the car at his asking price [/b]and without some of the extras he had offered me.

Then, to make it all the more amusing, he contacted me a couple of weeks later to offer me another car he had bought on the cheap. And he wanted too much.
[/quote]
So he was right then? Agreed his is still a dick but you can see my point

[Prime_BASS]

To me an item is only worth what some one will buy it for.

To some that's less and to others it's more. deal with it.

Personally I am a bit rude, if I do get offers that are totally no where near the mark, then I won't reply. Which is bad, but at the same time I have only recently got my laptop back so it's been a bit of a ballache reading and replying to messages.

[uncle psychosis]

I have no problem with someone offering me less than I asked for, so long as they are polite about it. The worst thing that happens is I say no.

Edited December 5, 2012 by uncle psychosis

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1354723326' post='1889606']
To me an item is only worth what some one will buy it for.

To some that's less and to others it's more. deal with it.

[/quote]
This is exactly it and my point to Jimbob, it was only a grand more than what he wanted to pay for it, not a grand more than the market value nicely proven by the next bloke who bought it!

Then begins the next phase of paying well over what others regard as market value for something just to prove you have the cash to spare to do such things, as we have seen most people actually did not really have the cash and now have credit cards and loans coming out of their ears and the country is to put it politely "f***ed!"