chaypup Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 At the Cardiff bass bash (which was great!) on Saturday a discussion came up about how Pj Harvey's last album only had bass (guitar) on 1 track and how we should record bass parts for the rest of the album as she had 'forgotten' to. Anyway, from this, someone mentioned that earlier in the year 3 of the top 10 billboard chart singles had no bass at all! And the reason for this is that [b][i]songs are being produced and mixed for mobile phone speakers[/i][/b]. Does this spell the end for bass players? [color=#FFFFFF](obviously not but it's a good starting point for discussion!)[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassPimp66 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 The decline started after the suicide of Kurt Cobain. This was the last time I heard music on the mainstream radio, before rap and r'n'b took over the waves for good. Kids today do not care about electric bass. Most of the music now comes from a computer, add a few lyrics and spend all the budget on the music video. No money, no time for a pre-historic bass player. Same goes for drummers. It's disappointing because it's never been so good being a bass player in terms of technology. The gear has evolved tremendously over the last 2 decades. Sadly, music has not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudewheresmybass Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 These things are circular- there have always been times when the talk has been of how long will any instrument be around. The challenge is how we maintain relevance and keep up rather than wondering whether the bass player will be made extinct by x or y. In time it will swing back, but keep moving forward in the mean time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judo Chop Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='chaypup' timestamp='1352710660' post='1866278'] At the Cardiff bass bash (which was great!) on Saturday a discussion came up about how Pj Harvey's last album only had bass (guitar) on 1 track and how we should record bass parts for the rest of the album as she had 'forgotten' to. Anyway, from this, someone mentioned that earlier in the year 3 of the top 10 billboard chart singles had no bass at all! And the reason for this is that [b][i]songs are being produced and mixed for mobile phone speakers[/i][/b]. Does this spell the end for bass players? [color=#FFFFFF](obviously not but it's a good starting point for discussion!)[/color] [/quote] Which three songs had no bass? Was 'Moves Like Jagger' one of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't give a sh*t if bass is disappearing from regurgitated manufactured tripe. There's a thousand musicians out there making incredible music out there and the bass is the most prominent instrument going! Look at young guys like Tom Vek, Willy Moon and Bruno Mars and they're really pushing bass forward. Kids develop their listening tastes as they grow up; they start out at 10-13 listening to MTv and then as they look to develop their identity, they pick up on 'proper' music. That's where they really start to understand how music works and why some songs sound good and others sound sh*t. As for the whole 'phasing out bass for mobile phone speakers' thing? I don't know, I want to see some citations! Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Depends if you want to have a career in, or your music revolves around, 'pop' I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 The bass guitar is a wholly unnecessary sound in most pop music. Why would you want to add an additional low note to a 6-note chord? It doesn't make any sense in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Don't you usually slap then pop............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 yup, don't really care about 'pop', I like 'music'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Does it matter? The scope of music these days is wide and diverse and pop/chart music is fast becoming an insignificant blip. Besides there's no law that says every piece of music needs to have a bass instrument of some description on it. There has been plenty of music throughout the ages (and not just limited to pop and rock) that was composed without bass and works perfectly well that way. Personally I think it's very presumptuous of the OP to consider writing bass parts for recorded songs that don't have them and were obviously written and arranged in such a way that the composer/writers felt that bass parts were unnecessary. In the (almost) 40 years that I have been writing music, I've written and recorded a lot of songs with no bass guitar on them and some of those don't have any bass instrument at all, because IMO they were complete without it. OTOH I've also written songs where the bass was the dominant instrument and the others were reduced to little more than sonic embellishments. It's all about knowing what is right of the song and the style of the music. If as a bass guitarist you feel that your role on music is under threat than maybe you should consider learning another instrument or how to program synths and sequencers. However IMO you are over-reacting. Musicians have worried about being replaced by technology since the 70s and guess what? All but the most incompetent are still here and playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It could be worse. We could be guitarists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 and lets face it most pop songs have the most boring repetitive basslines imaginable. There's enough decent music to keep us out of trouble I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Chocolate Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Some of my favourite bands don't have a bass player Nine Inch Nails and Depeche Mode to name a couple but it still doesn't stop me jamming along to them and enjoying their music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomProddy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='chaypup' timestamp='1352710660' post='1866278'] At the Cardiff bass bash (which was great!) on Saturday a discussion came up about how Pj Harvey's last album only had bass (guitar) on 1 track and how we should record bass parts for the rest of the album as she had 'forgotten' to. Anyway, from this, someone mentioned that earlier in the year 3 of the top 10 billboard chart singles had no bass at all! And the reason for this is that [b][i]songs are being produced and mixed for mobile phone speakers[/i][/b]. Does this spell the end for bass players?[color=#FFFFFF]obviously not but it's a good starting point for discussion!)[/color] [/quote] Hopefully not - but even if everyone starts listening to music on their mobiles, the number of people I see with stonking-fat bass-heavy headphones in their mobiles would suggest we have at least a decent chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomWIC Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Dr Chocolate' timestamp='1352717190' post='1866369'] Some of my favourite bands don't have a bass player Nine Inch Nails and Depeche Mode to name a couple but it still doesn't stop me jamming along to them and enjoying their music. [/quote] As much as there's rarely live bass on NIN albums, they do have a live bassist, bar some songs where the synth bass is too prevailant, i.e. Head Like A Hole and March Of The Pigs. Although, I regularly jam out Head Like A Hole and I can't imagine why they still relegate the bassist to rhythm guitar for that song. It sounds so good played on an actual bass with a bit of SVT overdrive. Same can be said for *some* pop music out there, there may be rarely bass guitar on records, but I'd imagine a lot of them still use a live bassist - The Veronicas for example, their second album was 95% synth bass, but all the tracks are played live with an actual bass player. Edited November 12, 2012 by TomWIC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooks79 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1352711982' post='1866299'] Look at young guys like Tom Vek... [/quote] Love Tom Vek, seriously underrated and overlooked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Eh? Bass DISappearing from pop? Frankly I just don't agree. I hear particular sub-genres of pop with less bass than others, but by and large I'm hearing faaaar more music now where the bass is at the fore-front of what is on the radio. Bass (even if it's not a bass guitar) is now the FOCUS of much music, dubstep being a prime example of this. Dance-based pop doesn't survive without a driving bassline. Listen to drivetime radio and I think you'll struggle to find songs without some serious bass to them. Amen to Bruno and the like already cited above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Adding bass to chords often spoils everything by rooting the harmony in the most bland way and often destroying interesting chord sequences and harmonic colours. It really is the most unnecessary instrument of all. I'm convinced! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1352718964' post='1866402'] Adding bass to chords often spoils everything by rooting the harmony in the most bland way and often destroying interesting chord sequences and harmonic colours. It really is the most unnecessary instrument of all. I'm convinced! [/quote] My thoughts exactly! Luckily I play the wrong notes all the time anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatboter Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I can't remember a decent bass-line on the radio for ages... maybe if you dig into alternative music but in popmusic the emphasis now is on the product and not on the instruments. I've been doing sessions for a lot of people and no one is asking for anything adventurous anymore, there used to be times they would ask me for fretless or slap parts but just like with guitar solo's : those days are gone. They cannot risk of losing the attention of the people during something musical.. some singers wouldn't even know how to behave on stage while they're not singing. Look at those big shows of Madonna, Lady Gaga : not a musician in sight, they are hidden away, just like in the music. I notice that a lot of bass players who used to be prolific musicians are scared to play anything else than root notes because they could loose their job.. I agree : bass is dead and I have fond memories of the times I was allowed to express myself a lot more than I do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 There's no way bass is disappearing from pop music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziphoblat Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And the reason for this is that [/font][/color][b][i]songs are being produced and mixed for mobile phone speakers[/i][/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif].[/quote][/font][/color] I'm not so sure about this. To be honest I think that a far more likely explanation is that it's a result of the loudness war. It's getting beyond the point of ridiculous now, everything that aims to be commercial is being brickwalled and digitally clipped into oblivion just to be louder. I've been reliably informed that a couple of mastering engineers have started to high-pass tracks or just cut some of the low end because that means the track will be perceptively louder (lower frequencies require more to sound as loud, the same reason we've been using amps that have far more wattage than guitar amps for so long). It stands to reason that if the bass parts in said music are so unimaginative and dull that they're simply a few root notes to pad out the sound, if they're going to effectively remove all that from the track in the mastering process anyway, why bother to record them in the first place? To my knowledge certain radio stations do this too. I'm also not sure I've observed a great deal of tracks that are missing the bass (not that I spend too long listening to commercial radio where I can avoid it). There's often a lack of the bass guitar, but I suppose it depends on the timbre they're looking for in the track. Most of these synth-pop instrumentals that seem to be quite popular are going to sound better and be easier to knock together if they just use a synth for the bass part. Doesn't mean there's no bass, just that there's no bass guitar... which really is no different to them using, say, an upright bass. [quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Kids today do not care about electric bass[/quote][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I just can't echo that sentiment at all. I'm 20 myself (came out of school a couple of year ago) and there were plenty of kids who were learning to play bass (and drum, and guitar). The scene is still very much alive, it's just there's other scenes running parallel to it... which honestly is fine. Perhaps even more interesting is that nearly all of the people I know who listen to mainstream radio chart music are middle aged women... I honestly hardly know any people of my age (or a bit younger) who listen to any of that stuff. Take that how you will.[/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='chaypup' timestamp='1352710660' post='1866278'] At the Cardiff bass bash (which was great!) on Saturday a discussion came up about how Pj Harvey's last album only had bass (guitar) on 1 track and how we should record bass parts for the rest of the album as she had 'forgotten' to. Anyway, from this, someone mentioned that earlier in the year 3 of the top 10 billboard chart singles had no bass at all! And the reason for this is that [b][i]songs are being produced and mixed for mobile phone speakers[/i][/b]. Does this spell the end for bass players?[/quote] Some styles of music just suit a synth bass more than the stringed variety, and vice-versa. Plus, lots of chart-topping pop bands use a snyth for recording purposes (maybe because it offers a consistent, easily controlled tone) but take a 'real' bass player with them on tour. The whole mobile phone speaker thing has no bearing on this. It [i]has[/i] influenced the way bass is mixed and mastered nowadays (with EQ boosts in the upper harmonics to make bass tones audible on crappy systems like phones). But that applies equally to all bass instruments. So if there is less real bass being played in pop music (which I'm not sure I agree with myself), then it's probably more a consequence of what the current favourite musical styles require, rather than anything else. Just my tuppence worth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='Dr Chocolate' timestamp='1352717190' post='1866369'] Some of my favourite bands don't have a bass player [color=#ff0000][b]Nine Inch Nails[/b][/color] and Depeche Mode to name a couple but it still doesn't stop me jamming along to them and enjoying their music. [/quote] Has anyone told Justin Meldal-Johnsen? I had the good fortune to meet him a few years ago (courtesy of Tayste2000) when he was touring with NIN. Playing bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I remember the '80s . Keyboards were supposed to be taking the place of bass. Didn't happen. A lot more 5/6string around now tho ' . Bass will always be around.imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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