chaypup Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Rant time........ 3 weeks ago, a promoter at a Cardiff club (The Moon, for any Cardiffians out there), tells us that he has a slot free for this Saturday and could we play? The night is arranged as our band ¡Super Chango! headlining and our sax player's other band in support. We agree to a pretty low fee on the basis that he will book us for future gigs and pay us a decent amount once he's seen us. Both bands then do a load of promo work and we organise someone to film us and a photographer too. Yesterday I receive a facebook invite to an event in The Moon Club for.....this Saturday! So I phone the promoter who of course isn't answering his phone and leave a message. This was his reply this morning: [quote] Hey, Just got your v.mail... Forgive late reply, we have been debate all day about sat. Due to the late confirmation of the gig we felt it won't work as the time is too short to promote it properly and have a decent for both parties (venue & band). So the plan is to have something on which won't cost the venue and still have people coming through the door, one of team member suggested someone which i don't know much about. I do sincerely apologise for the messing around and the lateness of the decision. It's totally my fault. If you guys aren't too P-off i like to keep you in mind for another gig where i'll make sure you do get the fee you require and the crowd. Again sorry and hope you understand. Talk soon. P. [/quote] Git!!! Shall we demand the gig fee in any case and lose any chance of playing there in the future? I've since heard that he's done this to a couple of other local bands but in their case he didn't bother to tell them before they turned up on the night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbassist Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I would ask (and expect not to get) for a full cancelation fee. I doubt you would want to work with him again anyway. You may be able to cause him a bit of hassle even if you don't get paid for the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I think it depends on your other options in the area. If the promoter has the best gig in the area sewn up I'd consider swallowing it, but I'd let him know he's had his 'reduced fee' gig and you'll be expecting your full fee next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 If you have written confirmation of the booking then you should chase him for the full fee. If you're a member of the MU, they will be able to help. Obviously, this so-called promoter won't want to pay up, so it will all depend on how bloody minded and persistent you are. Unfortunately, there's a lot of these bell-end promoters around these days. They act on the premise that your band should be falling over with gratitude for the opportunity to play in their venue. Unless you are desperate for gigs I would have nothing to with this anus or any event that he is associated with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaypup Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 [quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1347521357' post='1801850'] If you have written confirmation of the booking then you should chase him for the full fee. If you're a member of the MU, they will be able to help. Obviously, this so-called promoter won't want to pay up, so it will all depend on how bloody minded and persistent you are. Unfortunately, there's a lot of these bell-end promoters around these days. They act on the premise that your band should be falling over with gratitude for the opportunity to play in their venue. Unless you are desperate for gigs I would have nothing to with this anus or any event that he is associated with. [/quote] He's a clever b*stard in that despite me requesting confirmation of the fee in writing on numerous occasions he only ever confirmed it verbally. I've learned the lesson now though - all future gigs will have a written contract before we confirm them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 In this case I would just let it go! At least the promoter has been honest with you and in the circumstances is not being totally unreasonable - these things happen! I would email him back to say that you're disappointed but understand the position he's in and hope to work with him in the future. Might even work out well for you in the long run....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Hmmmm............. if he has history of this sort of thing, I'd bill him and make it known that he OWES you. Now, this will not get you any more gigs or money but then you know he isn't going to deliver on that anyway. I think he has learnt this ruse to help plug his dates...so I would do everything I could to close your people down from supporting the place..and certainly on bogus dates like this... Also, I would consider naming and shaming on a local level but that assumes you'll not even be thinking of working with him again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Get over it man. sh*t happens! You have no contract with the guy and the venue world is full of twats which you should be aware of by now if you are at the point in your career of being able to demand a fee for playing what I assume is original material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 He sounds like an arse (there's a lot of them about in the music business). I would bear this in mind if you ever decide to deal with him again and make sure you get a written contract. If he can't give you a contract you can't do the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 These things are a pain. Best thing to do is send an understanding email back, and explain your position briefly but clearly in regards to future gigs. Wish him best of luck, etc. That way he can only say positive things about you to other bands/biz people, which can only work in your favour. Sadly, even if poor business people are at fault, ranting and railing and causing hassle for them can only work against you if you're trying to make a future out of your enterprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) You have written confirmation of the gig! If your quote in the earlier post is from a Facebook message or email, he has written to confirm that you were booked and he is cancelling on you. Even if you are not, tell him that you're a member of the MU and you are going to show them the correspondence (Facebook or email) in which he admits responsibility for the cancellation and ask for the legal assistance you get with membership to help you chase the fee you are owed. If youre lucky, you might make him sh!t his pants enough to pay up or honour your booking! Edited September 13, 2012 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1347525933' post='1801905'] You have written confirmation of the gig! If your quote in the earlier post is from a Facebook message or email, he has written to confirm that you were booked and he is cancelling on you. [/quote] Well spotted. You got him bang to rights :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Let it go! I don't suppose that you'll get very far demanding the full fee or even a cancellation fee. It will take up your time, you'll get wound up with the promoters response (or lack of), you'll want to pursue it, taking even more of your time... all for what?... "a pretty low fee"? Write it off!... take it as a lesson learnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Just sleep with his partner, and then move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 If you get the MU involved they will probably want to know why you agreed to do this gig for less than MU rates anyway! I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. Promoters are c**ts, period. If you rant at him, demand money from him etc. it can only go one way, the promoter will never book you again, may bad mouth you to the local community and generally nothing good will come from it. If you're nice and understanding, but let him know that you are a little P'd off as you have promoted it/cancelled other opportunities to do it etc., he'll probably feel a bit guilty and want to do you guys a favour in future. Always remember, in the ladder of your life/music career, if you have sh*t on your shoes on the way up, you'll have sh*t on your hands on the way down. This has happened to most of us at some point, it is a major pain, but there it is, be gracious - We actually turned up to a gig 30 miles away before we found out we'd been double booked. The promoter gave us petrol money, and we went home annoyed. 1 week later he phoned and booked us for an outside event he was doing at 4x the usual fee. Now he gets us regular gigs actually, because we were gracious when he'd f'd up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Yep, I'd agree with the above. Make sure not to come over as a push over but be gracious at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Not all promoters are *****. Some are excellent. However, from what the OP has said it doesn't sound like this is genuine mix up. He's doing what he wants without any regard for the bands he's supposed to be booking and promoting and basically treating you all like mugs. And he will continue to do it for as long as he can get away with. The sooner this guy is no longer involved with booking and promoting the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 [quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1347524859' post='1801886'] Get over it man. sh*t happens! You have no contract with the guy and the venue world is full of twats which you should be aware of by now if you are at the point in your career of being able to demand a fee for playing what I assume is original material. [/quote] ^ this in bucket loads. Nice post. Once you have been around the block you will develop a sixth sense for these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1347530009' post='1801963'] If you rant at him, demand money from him etc. it can only go one way, the promoter will never book you again, may bad mouth you to the local community and generally nothing good will come from it. If you're nice and understanding, but let him know that you are a little P'd off as you have promoted it/cancelled other opportunities to do it etc., he'll probably feel a bit guilty and want to do you guys a favour in future. [/quote] This. he may or may not be rubbish but will undoubtedly have lots of contacts. Never burn bridges unless you absolutely have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I guess it's nice to be able to accept that sh*t happens, and just move on, but then that is probably what umpteen bands have done in the past, and is why he still acts without any consideration for the bands he has "booked". Sometimes we have to make a stance, if only to stop it happening to others! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'd personally let it go, you've learnt your lesson. Especially if he's known for this sort of behaviour. There's a 'promotor' up here who is the biggest hole I've ever come across. He's cancelled gigs on us last minute, never pays, never promotes, all the usual nonsense. The simple matter is we don't get any more gigs with him now. No one ever turns up to his promotions as he doesn't promote them, we have never benefitted from playing his gigs. I'd go with another promoter if you can. The sad truth is, if you tell all of your mates bands what he's like and not to go with him, it won't make any difference. new bands get formed all the time and he'll get those as they have no idea what his reputation is like. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaypup Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I wish I'd read all of your excellent replies earlier as we've just come back from giving him a hiding! Seriously though, I agree with the majority of you and we've (civilly) let him know that we're annoyed and if he's lucky enough to have us play at his club then he will have to pay us in advance. Thanks for all of your replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 [quote name='chaypup' timestamp='1347518402' post='1801822']We agree to a pretty low fee on the basis that he will book us for future gigs and pay us a decent amount once he's seen us.[/quote] Has this - or does this ever happen? I've heard it used as a carrot to get bands to play a bigger place than they would normally, but IF the "promoter" was genuinely interested before forking out for a gig he would make a point of catching you at one of your usual gigs, n'est pas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1347547969' post='1802303'] Has this - or does this ever happen? I've heard it used as a carrot to get bands to play a bigger place than they would normally, but IF the "promoter" was genuinely interested before forking out for a gig he would make a point of catching you at one of your usual gigs, n'est pas? [/quote] Yep - we do this every time we approach a new venue. They get us for a reduced introductory fee which then goes up to the full fee once we've shown that we can deliver the goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 [quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1347528105' post='1801938'] Just sleep with his partner, and then move on. [/quote] Absolutely Rock and Roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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