Sell some basses, and spend the money on perfecting my sound?

[thebrig]

Should I whittle down my bass collection, and spend the proceeds on perfecting my sound?

Just take a look at my gear list, and you can see that I have far too much stuff, and although they are all very nice basses, I could sell a few, and have a fair bit to spend on accessories etc, to improve the sound with the basses that I do actually gig with.

The one I use all the time is my [b]Ibanez SR1200 Premium[/b], and the [b]Ibanez SR500[/b] is very similar to play, so it makes a great back-up bass. The [b]'DarkeHorse' Precision[/b], [b]Jazz[/b] and [b]Black Satin[/b], are my own creations and will probably stay with me forever.
I never use the [b]Ibanez SR 505[/b], and the [b]Warwick Corvette[/b] is too heavy for my ailing back, even though it is a fantastic bass to play, and it sounds amazing. I also have loads of effect pedals that have hardly been out of the house, because despite all the hype, they are virtually useless IMO.

I reckon I could get between £800 and £1,000 for the two basses, which are both in [b]'as new'[/b] condition, plus whatever I could pick up for all the accessories I have, but never use.

If I do go down this route, I have it in mind to buy an [b]Sadowsky outboard bass preamp [/b]to start with, so can you guys out there in 'BC land', give me some advice on what else I can do to improve my sound?

I know sound and tone is very subjective, and is a personal thing, but what I'm after it a very tight 'thumpy' sound with plenty of bottom, as we play a lot of classic/modern rock.

I know the Genz Benz is a great rig, because I have heard other players using it to great affect, but I have always struggled to get the sound I want, regardless of the equipment I use, maybe it's just me, but any advice would be welcome.

Cheers.

Edited February 2, 2012 by thebrig

[OliverBlackman]

firstly if its just one sound your after then why have more than one bass that can deliver that sound? what basses have you tried that can deliver a tone similar to what your after?

I would say the sadowsky pre amp will give you a punchy jazz bass tone that cuts through (going by sadowsky metro's I've played)

Edited February 2, 2012 by blackmn90

[LukeFRC]

not being funny.... but you have what I just looked up as a bass with an active preamp in it.... it goes through a cable, and into the front end preamp of your amp.... and you want to add another preamp in-between?

maybe the gear you have can't do the tight thumpy thing? can you dial it on the P bass?
sell the basses, buy a new amp/cab that fits the bill. streamliner, or Tecamp or Tonehammer.... or maybe even something with valves in it?

My amp cost me more than any of my basses. but both of them can sit in it totally flat and sound amazing. Thats what I was aiming for.

[skidder652003]

get a decent cab if you dont already have one, barefaced super 12 should give you the thump and bottom end, see the reviews on the forum

[Lozz196]

I`m kindof in agreement with the OP. If you know you`re only likely to use the one sound, in whatever projects you take on, whilst nice to have many basses capable of all sorts, there is logic to making your everyday sound as good as it can be.

Main bass and backup that does the same job, plus the best amp/cab that you can get is for me, essential. Anything else, well that`s if it can be afforded.

[gary mac]

Unless instruments are particularly valuable/collectable, I see very little point in keeping them if they are not comfortable to play due to weight issues.

So, unless you are expecting your ailing back to improve, sell the heavyweights.

I can recall in my younger days always striving for "that sound", spending time and dosh on preamps, active basses, different amps etc. It all seems to have come right for me now with passive precisions and the eq on my amp, which is a Genz

[thebrig]

Maybe I should have said in my OP, that I have only been playing seriously for around three or four years, and the reason I have so many, is because I had a big interest in guitars/basses, so started collecting them rather than playing them.

I could play a few chords, but I never thought that I would be good enough to actually play in a band.
That was, until I was asked to make up the numbers in a one-off band, to entertain friends and family for fun, and it just took off from there.

Since then, I have spent two years gigging with a function band, but I left them six months ago to put together a rock/blues band which is now complete.

I don't really have much knowledge of tone shaping etc.. other than just plugging in and twiddling around a bit, I think that maybe my biggest problem is that I can get the sound I want at home at low volume, but when gigging/rehearsing, I don't seem to cut through the mix as well as I would like.

I have had over thirty instruments in the last ten years, but I have whittled it down now, and I might get rid of a few more and just concentrate on playing.

The [b]Ibanez SR1200[/b] is a very versatile bass, that plays beautifully, and I know the [b]Genz Benz[/b] is up to it too, so I think it's just my inexperience/inability to tweak everything correctly.

[thisnameistaken]

If you can't get the sound in your head from your current gear, and you think a Sadowsky pre will do it, why not sell all your basses and buy a Sadowsky?

I don't have much experience of Ibanez basses nor do I know what the sound in your head is, so I can't tell you either way whether your current bass will do it.

[gary mac]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1328172909' post='1522854']
my biggest problem is that I can get the sound I want at home at low volume, but when gigging/rehearsing, I don't seem to cut through the mix as well as I would like..
[/quote]

I can recall the same problem, then I got my first P bass not always the best sound at home but just seemed to sit so nicely in the band mix. The band was blues/rock

[Paul S]

Maybe the sound you are making is too clean? The GB is a very clean sounding amp. Maybe a spot more overdrive (rather than distortion) might cut through? I found that, at home alone, I would prefer to hear a nice resonant clear bass but, in the band context, it needed to be dirtier. For rock, that is. There are a few pedals that might introduce some 'tubey' overdrive sounds - if you catch one secondhand, if it isn't what you like, you can move it on quite easily without a massive hit.

But maybe it also depends on what you want the bass to do in the context of the track you are playing. My default is effectively a mid-scoop but for something where the bass needs to really stand out - Chelsea Dagger is one that springs to mind, plus we are just starting to do Eton Rifles, for example - I need to boost the mids much more. Again, playing that in isolation I don't like the sound but, with the rest of the band, it sounds just right.

[thumperbob 2002]

Buy a line 6 bass pod- you`ll get one for under £100- best tone tool I ever bought!! Every sound you want is there- only takes the time to learn it.

[OliverBlackman]

i really dont think buying pedals is the answer. More likely to be the mix in levels is wrong in your band. Also you wont get the same tone as at home because you push the amp and cab more at louder levels when playing a gig

[ZMech]

How about spending the money from the bass sales on lots of lessons?

[Prime_BASS]

Sound better?
Practice more.

Accessories won't make you "sound" better at all.
I go to gigs with my bass amp and cab and sound fine.

I have a quality strap that actually makes a difference in me being comfortable.

Unless you plan on recording and having a team of sound engineers and producers you won't ever really get what you are afer, as it probably doesn't exist outside of the recording studio.

Either enjoy what you, or sell what you dont want to keep and spend it on a nice relaxing holiday.

Too much time, effort, money and emotions are spent on searching for an illusive sound in one's head.

Just play bass man.

[Earbrass]

^^^^^^^^^

What he said.

[thebrig]

I do practise a lot, usually at least 2/3 hours each day, and as I've been off work for the past 3 months following an operation, I am now spending nearly all day on the bass. I do work at it, because being a 'late starter', I know I have a lot of catching up to do.
[i][b]I know that I will never be up there with the best[/b][/i], but three of the guys in my current band, have been playing for an average of [i][b]35 years each[/b][/i], at pro and semi-pro level, and they have complimented me on my playing, so I can't be too bad! although I certainly wont get complacent, because I know I could get better.

I totally agree with the comments about practising more, and as Gary Player once said, "the more I practise, the better, or 'luckier' you get".

One thing puzzles me though, some people are saying you don't need pedals etc., but there are thousands of threads on hear singing the praises of compressors, pre-amps/EQ's and all sorts of accessories, so are we all just being sucked in to believing they will help improve the sound.

Yes, I know that great players will sound good on just about any old bass and amp, and I'm sure there are some great bass players hear on BassChat.
If you are one of those top level players, the chances are, you will be playing top-notch venues for decent money, and will have sound engineers and bass technicians to advise you.
But there are also quite a few like myself, who play to a reasonable standard, at local venues purely for fun and enjoyment, but don't have the expertise to get the most from our gear, and we normally have to set up everything ourselves, and then ask the missus what we sound like.

Thanks for input so far BC'ers

Edited February 2, 2012 by thebrig

[Lozz196]

Many people can`t get the exact sound they want from their amp, as the eq on the amp won`t do what they want. Pedals are a good way of shaping the sound to your exact requirements, otherwise it`s constantly changing amps, which is costly. Compressors - if the amp doesn`t have an on-board one - are a good "effect" for bass, as they even out the playing, plus even out the response across the strings.

Getting a great sound at home for me is a good indicator of what I need to avoid in a band mix. In general, the more I dislike the sound on its own, the better it works in the mix. Think middy, scratchy, this usually equates to instant mix heaven. So what I`ve found easiest is get the sound I like at home, then live, just keep all other controls the same, but up the mids until what I want is there.

[Conan]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1328172909' post='1522854']
I don't really have much knowledge of tone shaping etc.. other than just plugging in and twiddling around a bit[/quote]

That IS tone shaping!

As others have said, there are times when the quest for the tonal Holy Grail is inherently flawed. The tone you quest for may not be achievable - for many reasons. I am not familiar with the ibanez models you own, but my impression is that they have a rather "modern" and "bright" sound? That being the case, you will struggle to get the classic P-bass "thump" that many classic rock recordings feature. If that is what you want - buy a P-bass!*

I also agree that pedals will not improve your sound. They may change it, but those changes may be negative as well as positive. The more items you place between your bass and your amp, the more signal you will lose - meaning that more of the original tone of the guitar is lost. Yes, you can alter this tone by using the pedals, but that seems like a double-negative to me!

A lot of people forget about the humdrum elements of the gear chain. Decent strings and cables can make a big difference (for the better) to your sound. I would start there. It's also a hell of a lot cheaper! I recently upgraded my strings from D'Addarios to DRs and to my ears the difference was clear. Everyone's ears are different though.

EDIT: I see you already have a P-bass!

Edited February 2, 2012 by Conan

[Legion]

So many factors to consider...I've skimmed this a bit but it seems the issue here is knowing what to actually do with EQ to get what you want in real-life-every-changing-gig-scenarios. Of course the orignal source of your sound is a big factor so the right bass/pickups/strings would be a good start. Get some flats on that P? I don't want to derail but just trying different flats on a P bass will keep you occupied for weeks, and its a lot cheaper than buying amps/cabs/basses

Obviously every gig will have a large quantity of variables that can impact your sound from a little bit to a lot. I've always optimistically assumed that with some knowledge, most bass amps inherently contain sufficient EQ to overcome weird acoustics and so on but I imagine some are more capable than others (i.e. parametric ones).

The next problem is that all you can usually hear is whats on stage, not whats out front.

I have no answers - god I'm helpful eh. I've rarely found a need to tweak EQ too much...apart from the time I had to use an Ampeg fridge, now that needed some extreme tweaks. Horrible thing (imo)

[peteb]

I guess from your OP that you are after more of a 'P Bassy' type sound rather than a Sadowsky tone

I would suggest that you get to the rehearsal room a bit early and set everything flat on your Shuttle and Ibanez and then experiment - start with slightly boosting the low mids on the amp and turning on the LF filter

A decent compressor might be a good idea as it should help you cut thru the mix better, but most other effects will merely 'colour' the sound and you already have a good (if rather clean) preamp in your shuttle

I am guessing that you like the sound that you get at home as you are probably using a 'mid scoop', which sounds great but can get lost in a mix if you are not carefull - try not to have massive cuts and boosts on the amp and see how it works with the rest of the band

[Dave Vader]

P-bass, flats, turn the tone knob down to about 3, frowny face on the eq. job done. Sounds hideous on it's own, but in a mix you will punch through like mighty mouse in a paper bag.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1328184969' post='1523155']
One thing puzzles me though, some people are saying you don't need pedals etc., but there are thousands of threads on hear singing the praises of compressors, pre-amps/EQ's and all sorts of accessories, [b]so are we all just being sucked in to believing they will help improve the sound.?[/b]
[/quote]

Short answser: Yes
Even I go through stages of thinking I need or don't need a compressor(on bad days my playing truely dreadful) then others I just dont feel I don't need anything but the pure amplification of the signal that the bass is producing with my fingers.
I may be seen as hypocritical as I'm getting one, again.

My point was merely not to worry about "improving" how you sound, spend the money on relaxing, take some time out. Silddx tookk some time out and he came back with some very interesting points. I've done it, not picked up the bass for a while and then came back to it went over a few songs and thought I sounded better than ever. I'm still on that hype so maybe soon I won't be. haha

Just enjoy playing and learning, and spend the money on a holiday for you and the bird!
[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1328193417' post='1523380']
clean) preamp in your shuttle
try not to have massive cuts and boosts on the amp and see how it works with the rest of the band
[/quote]

Nothing wrong with Clean.
I go into everything pretty much flat,with only a treble boost as the compact doesn't go too high and they get drowned out between 2 guitards.

[Dad3353]

Good evening, thebrig...

It seems that your main problem is the lack of experience in shaping the sound of your gear to obtain what you desire. Although there is a fair bit of good advice in the replies above, I suspect that a helping hand (or ear...) may be more efficient, in your case. Do you have a bass-playing chum who could guide you..? If not is there anyone reasonably local to Herts on this forum who could devote an evening or two to go through the motions (I'd love to help, but I'm in France..!).
If no-one here could volunteer, maybe a local music shop could recommend a player..?
Essentially, one needs to have a starting point (normally everything 'flat', then listen...), and adjust to fit the bill. One has to have had some experience to be able to identify what's 'missing' (or too much...), but once the ears have been 'locked in' to the essential points, it's not that hard (assuming decent gear, perhaps...).
It doesn't sound as if the playing is any problem to you (congratulations..!); simply being able to use the knobs and buttons to adapt the sound to the event, be it at home, pub, hall or open air.
I woundn't want to presume too much, but I would have thought that a knowledgable BC'er not far from you could be worth a cuppa (or pint...)?
Any takers, folks..?

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1328181120' post='1523061']
Sound better?
Practice more.

Accessories won't make you "sound" better at all.
I go to gigs with my bass amp and cab and sound fine.

I have a quality strap that actually makes a difference in me being comfortable.

Unless you plan on recording and having a team of sound engineers and producers you won't ever really get what you are afer, as it probably doesn't exist outside of the recording studio.

Either enjoy what you, or sell what you dont want to keep and spend it on a nice relaxing holiday.

Too much time, effort, money and emotions are spent on searching for an illusive sound in one's head.

Just play bass man.
[/quote]
Yep.

[thebrig]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1328198406' post='1523507']
Good evening, thebrig...

It seems that your main problem is the lack of experience in shaping the sound of your gear to obtain what you desire. Although there is a fair bit of good advice in the replies above, I suspect that a helping hand (or ear...) may be more efficient, in your case. Do you have a bass-playing chum who could guide you..? If not is there anyone reasonably local to Herts on this forum who could devote an evening or two to go through the motions (I'd love to help, but I'm in France..!).
If no-one here could volunteer, maybe a local music shop could recommend a player..?
Essentially, one needs to have a starting point (normally everything 'flat', then listen...), and adjust to fit the bill. One has to have had some experience to be able to identify what's 'missing' (or too much...), but once the ears have been 'locked in' to the essential points, it's not that hard (assuming decent gear, perhaps...).
It doesn't sound as if the playing is any problem to you (congratulations..!); simply being able to use the knobs and buttons to adapt the sound to the event, be it at home, pub, hall or open air.
I woundn't want to presume too much, but I would have thought that a knowledgable BC'er not far from you could be worth a cuppa (or pint...)?
Any takers, folks..?
[/quote]
I do have a mate who has been playing bass for many years, although he has never been to one of my gigs yet, but I know for sure that he will be more than willing to help me out if he can, and I have just found out that our new vocalist's missus, did the sound for him during his solo singing career, so at least now, I will have someone out front advising me whether it's cutting through or not.

Thanks for the help, and thanks to [u]everyone[/u] who has chipped in with advice, it's much appreciated.

Edited February 2, 2012 by thebrig