mcnach Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I recently bought a very nice white MusicMan SUB on eBay: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/162376-nbd-white-mm-sub-bass/page__pid__1473680__st__20#entry1473680"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/162376-nbd-white-mm-sub-bass/page__pid__1473680__st__20#entry1473680[/url] The bass is great, but the seller thought it was sufficient to put the bass in a regular gigbag, stick an address on it, and give it to the good boys at ParcelFarce. It arrived in one piece, amazingly... but during the trip it got slightly injured, and two of the tuners (D and G string) were damaged. Fortunately the headstock appears to be ok, I don't see any cracks. I told the seller, and I expect him to pay for the replacement tuners. What do you think? This is what happened: - I told him about the damage. I offered to send pictures and he said please send them... so I sent him the pictures. - Then silence. - I sent him links to the UK distributor's site, showing the tuners and the cost (£14.50 each). - Silence. - I have a brain wave and make him an offer: since I like to put Hipshot Bass Extenders (D-tuners) on my basses, if I installed one on this bass, I could take the healthy E-string one and put it on the D, therefore only needing one tuner: G-string (reverse, treble side). - Silence - He has not taken up my offer, and after thnking about it more, I decide I do not really want to put a D-Tuner on this bass, certainly not right now. So I inform him that as I did not hear from him I consider the offer annulled and I would just get straiht replacements. - Silence - I order replacements for the two damaged tuners, at a cost of £29. I email him the details. - Silence. - Then two more days go by where I am away from the computer and do not check my email and I am not at home. When I return home, the tuners have arrived. Cool. I check my email. He has finally replied. He says he likes my offer and asks for my Paypal to pay me £15 for one tuner. - I say thanks, but as per my emails, since he had not replied, I had gone and bought straight replacements, so I'm £14 out of pocket still. - He says he did nothing wrong, it was ParcelForce, and that to solve things fast he sent me the £15 and he is happy with sharing the cost of the repair, and that we both have learnt something (?) - I say no. I still want my £14. I say if he wants to make a claim with ParcelForce I will help him with photographs and testimony, but he should not wait for that to refund me: it was his choice of packaging, his choice of carrier, my contract is with him, not with the carrier. I also point out that as per ParcelForce's T&Cs, his chances of getting any money back are extremely slim... - He says to send him back the £15, and he will put in a claim and when they give him the money he will send me the full £29. He says it is not his fault ParcelForce damaged the bass, and he is annoyed that I made an offer and then backed out of it. - I suppress my laughter and tell him no, I am not sending back the £15. I remind him there was no agreement re: my offer since he did not respond to my offer, and he still did not respond when I told him that I was changing my mind about it and wanted the straight replacements instead. - He says that if I want to take it up with eBay I should go ahead. - So I opened a case. What do you think? I am not very bothered by the remaining £14, to be honest. But I am bothered by his attitude: lack of communication and "nothing-to-do-with-me" demeanor. That is the reason I did not just drop it and opened a dispute with ebay, and that is the reason I may leave negative feedback too... but part of me feels bad because apart from his behaviour post-sale everything was ok. Bass is immaculate apart from the damage in transit, description was very accurate... and he does not come across as a bad guy. But when he just stopped communicating, and at the point in our conversation when it happened... it was hard not to think that he was just ignoring me. He claims he emailed me... but I never got anything. It should have been obvious i was not getting his responses (if he did email!) and I would have used ebay's messaging, for that leaves a record that eBay have easy access to, in case of problems. He only acted after I informed him that if I didn't hear from him within a couple more days I would leave negative feedback and open a dispute. What a coincidence, now suddenly I receive his emails ok... Right. I could have dropped it. But now I will not, just because of his attitude. Do you think I am wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Put it through ebay dispute process, as item arrived not as described, if he keeps up his silence and won't negotiate a partial, you might get all of it. No sympathy with people who don't communicate. Had a guy telling me the (sold as spares or repair) amp I sold him had an issue after he'd had it teched, I pointed out the issue was with his cab/cable after a lot of troubleshooting messaging, and he was plugging into a possible open circuit and needs it checked out. Took blowing up his Orange and his Marshall before he believed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentbob Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 This sort of thing really annoys me, so I would probably do exactly the same as you have. You paid for the instument as advertised and received something different, why should you be out of pocket? The seller should either make good the damage, or pay for you to do so, then take it up with parcel force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Not at all dude. Although, I would go back to the listing and look at what postage was offered and stuff like that. People try and get away with there own T&C's on the listing but ebay's rules state that you can't. Anyway.... The case is solid, he should of had it insured, as usually (parcel force through the post office) you have to have it insured if its over £40. at the same time due to the insufficient packaging (should have been double boxed IIRC) he wont be able to make a claim, also by ebay's rules he is liable to the cost of a full repair or the cost of the item(sale value). You were diplomatic in your approach and he was silent. I too wouldnt be so bothered by the loss of £15 but its the lack of comms and bad attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 If you paid via paypal he is stuffed! I don't blame you for pushing this regardless of the fact that it is just £14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluRay Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Depends if you think its really worth the hassle to make the point. As its not very much dosh - personally, if I were otherwise happy with the bass, I'd let it drop. (PS I'm not the seller ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 This why when I sell a bass / guitar / anything that can get damaged I say pick up only. It does make your target audience smaller although when I sold a bass recently, the chap drove over from France! You are totally in the right. Lack of communication is just bad manners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiOgon Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Don't think for a second that ebay 'buyer protection' will do a F'ing thing to help you! I'm stuck in a dispute at the moment over a £400 item which the seller described as 2 years old & as soon as I got it I saw the Date 2007 on it's serial number & the manual! From my experience their customer relations are at zero, it's mind blowingly useless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 You are in the right but do it thru ebay and paypal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 [quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1325351974' post='1482453'] Don't think for a second that ebay 'buyer protection' will do a F'ing thing to help you! I'm stuck in a dispute at the moment over a £400 item which the seller described as 2 years old & as soon as I got it I saw the Date 2007 on it's serial number & the manual! From my experience their customer relations are at zero, it's mind blowingly useless [/quote] From my experiences (seen from both sides), paypal will act and sort stuff like this very promptly and they have set timelines by which parties have to act otherwise it gets resolved in favour of the other party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 things like ebay really only work if people do it right (bit like society) so I think kick him very hard in the balls (metaphorically) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom in Dorset Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 If it is Parcel Farce's fault (I blame the poor packing myself) it's up to the sender to sort it out. Personally I'd just take the £15, walk away, and slag the guy off on an internet bass player's forum. If you are going to pursue it stay within ebay/paypal, it's what you pay their fees for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiOgon Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1325352105' post='1482457'] You are in the right but do it thru ebay and paypal. [/quote] I Looked at doing that but is seems once you have a dispute open with ebay they won't let you do anything through Paypal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Stuff a bass into a gig bag and expect it to survive being couriered and we all know that this is what inevitably happens - certainly not Parcel Force's fault IMHO. You've managed to get £15 back and (presumably) your bass is now back in working order - I'd ask myself if all the effort and stress over £14 was actually worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 [quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1325353741' post='1482488'] I Looked at doing that but is seems once you have a dispute open with ebay they won't let you do anything through Paypal. [/quote] I didn't realise that but ebay and paypal are the same people aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1325354099' post='1482495'] I didn't realise that but ebay and paypal are the same people aren't they? [/quote] They are but they want the least hassle possible so it is correct that you start one dispute and you need to run it through; I go paypal everytime as they don't like the fact that you can get a chargeback from your credit card and they tend to sort it out sharpish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1325352247' post='1482460'] From my experiences (seen from both sides), paypal will act and sort stuff like this very promptly and they have set timelines by which parties have to act otherwise it gets resolved in favour of the other party. [/quote] True. However, a few years ago I sold on ebay, The thing was working last I sued but didn't have the equipment to test if it still was, I did state this. Anyway I went on holiday straight after sending it, for 2 weeks.... When I got back I had 1 message from the buyer saying it was broke and notifications from paypal saying that a case had been opened etc. becuase I hadnt replied in 10 days they awarded the buyer his money back, and he wasnt obliged to send me back the item, however paypal said I could message him and "ask" for it back, i did so and never heard anything. Paypal informed they couldnt do anything about aswell. So i was £100 out of pocket and had no item either.... Anything could have happened to me, I could of died, although they weren't to know, but the space between his first email to me and paypal awarding money (based on my listing and his message and my no reply) was 12 days. Before then I had put through a considereable amount of cash their way, but since then I've not used them and never wish to ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) It happens here, on Basschat, also. Twice I've received basses from sellers which have arrived damaged. Both times I informed the sellers as soon as the basses were received. On both occasions, after discussions, the sellers agreed to pay for repair cost (in one case £240, and the other £35). On both occasions the works were undertaken by know luthiers/repairers, and all photographic evidence and invoices/receipts provided to the sellers. On both occasions, after that point, nothing was ever heard from those sellers again leaving me out of pocket. You'll meet dishonest people wherever you go, eBay or Basschat. Edited January 1, 2012 by noelk27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Honestly, in my opinion, you shoulda decided what you wanted to do, and emailed him asking him for the money, and kept asking for it, then open the dispute as you have. I personally wouldn't have then changed my mind and offered to go halfs, and then recinded on that offer. The fella may only check his emails once a week, got the email about the pickups, and sent the money straight away then found the others... I would be annoyed and offers being changed. Apart from that, go through ebay complaints was right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorturedSaints Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 + 1 for Ebay complaints. I don't think you or the seller will get anywhere with Parcelfarce, I seem to remember a disclaimer in their T&Cs that say they won't accept liability for damage to guitars if not packed properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftyhook Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) I once had some trouble with a seller. Ebay were pants. Almost automated responses. Long story but, to be honest, but it went on for about 6 bloody weeks. I think you may end up disliking the bass because of bad feelings. Personally I would write the situation off because the more it drags on, the worse you will feel. I recently bought a Squire P/J bass in 'perfect working order," just a few minor blemishe"'. True, except the fact that the truss rod is to it's max and needs repairing. I paid £90 for the bass.Will cost me about £40 to repair. But I can't be arsed with the hassle/dispute etc. I put it down to experience. I know the majority will disagree, but I just want happy bass playing vibes. If it's more about principle to you, **** it. Turn the other cheek and move on man. Good luck Edited January 1, 2012 by leftyhook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanbass1 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 [quote name='leftyhook' timestamp='1325418615' post='1482873'] I think you may end up disliking the bass because of bad feelings. Personally I would write the situation off because the more it drags on, the worse you will feel. I recently bought a Squire P/J bass in 'perfect working order," just a few minor blemishe"'. True, except the fact that the truss rod is to it's max and needs repairing. I paid £90 for the bass.Will cost me about £40 to repair. But I can't be arsed with the hassle/dispute etc. I put it down to experience. I know the majority will disagree, but I just want happy bass playing vibes. If it's more about principle to you, **** it. Turn the other cheek and move on man. Good luck [/quote] +1 - the last £14 is not worth the hassle IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Yeah, don't risk feeling annoyed every time you look at the thing for the sake of £14. I'd just close the case, leave him fair but descriptive negative feedback and 1-star seller ratings as appropriate, then move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I'd probably do as others have said, close the case, leave negative feedback and enjoy my new bass knowing that I got it at a good price anyway (assuming that was the case) Life's too short.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1325383156' post='1482752'] Honestly, in my opinion, you shoulda decided what you wanted to do, and emailed him asking him for the money, and kept asking for it, then open the dispute as you have. I personally wouldn't have then changed my mind and offered to go halfs, and then recinded on that offer. The fella may only check his emails once a week, got the email about the pickups, and sent the money straight away then found the others... I would be annoyed and offers being changed. Apart from that, go through ebay complaints was right thing to do. [/quote] I agree with this. I don't think you'll have done yourself any favours with the dispute by changing what you asked for either. The best way to deal with an issue like this is to do everything through eBay. Personally I would have sent him one polite request (via ebay messages) to cover your replacement tuners and after that it would have been straight to "item not as described" and let ebay handle it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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