I want you to use a pick ???

[dmccombe7]

I know this topic is running on another thread at moment but here's another angle.
My band although its mainly the keyboard player thinks i should use a pick because it has more attack.
Been playing fingerstyle for a lot of yrs and only been with this band for 7 rehearsals to date playing classic rock covers like Rainbow and Purple etc.

Should i ask him to start playing with his toes.
Should the drummer become a percussionist using only his hands and no sticks.
Should the guitarist try classical finger style only.
Singer was ok with my sound and if anything preferred it.

Any thoughts on how to respond or should i give in to their demands.

Dave

Edited November 18, 2011 by dmccombe7

[EssentialTension]

If you got the job as a finger player then so be it. There's plenty of attack from fingers with the correct strings/EQ/right hand position.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

You should use both. Improves your playing,and makes you more versatile.

[cheddatom]

more high mids and play harder! The keyboard player wants more attack in your sound, i'm sure (if he's a decent musician) he won't care how you go about it.

[xilddx]

I was asked to play pick in a metal band after using fingers. He was right, it worked better, he preferred it, and I used pick from then on.

It's about that, whether it sounds better or not. But unfortunately that can be subjective. Just try not to let ego get in the way.

[crez5150]

Think this was discussed before but with this type of material a bass with pick is generally favoured over finger style (not that I would).....

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1321633054' post='1441486']
I was asked to play pick in a metal band after using fingers. He was right, it worked better, he preferred it, and I used pick from then on.

It's about that, whether it sounds better or not. But unfortunately that can be subjective. Just try not to let ego get in the way.
[/quote]

Valid point. I think a lot of it is my ego.
A lot of it is also the fact that I'm not sure if i would enjoy starting over again with a pick. Literally haven't used one since my first few yrs playing over 30yrs ago so its a major undertaking to relearn and not sure i would be as competent or comfortable.
Might give it a try though and put my ego to one side.

Dave

[risingson]

I've had to deal with this recently as well. On the one hand, you're the bass player, so it's up to you to make the informed decision as to what will work best for the song you're playing. This includes how you approach the song, fingers or pick, and so on. On the other hand, try and take yourself out of the picture and understand where the rest of your band are coming from. Is your decision to not use a pick due to stubbornness or a prejudice against pick style playing for example, could the song be lifted with the use of a pick of some kind.

Finely tune between these two schools of thought and conclude whatever is the right thing to do for the song! If you disagree with the rest of your band mates, then be diplomatic about it. Equally, try and take any ego out the equation also (not suggesting you have one at all, just talking from experience I guess!).

Edited November 18, 2011 by risingson

[WalMan]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1321632734' post='1441479']
Should i ask him to start playing with his toes.
Should the drummer become a percussionist using only his hands and no sticks.
Should the guitarist try classical finger style only.
Singer was ok with my sound and if anything preferred it.
[/quote]They are rather different things to using a pick. I hear what you are saying about being fingerstyle for years but as others have said for the style of music you are talking about it is more often the norm (please note I said "[i]more often[/i]"). I know there are plenty that say and do use finger style in classic rock - Billy Sheehan for example - and it can work, but I prefer a pick for this style for the attack it gives.

Why not give it a try and see how the two compare, and how the others feel about the difference, and by all means re EQ for fingers if necessary to prove that you can achieve the same tone either way, but I would not just say NO. Horses for courses etc

[WalMan]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1321633572' post='1441495']
Valid point. I think a lot of it is my ego.
A lot of it is also the fact that I'm not sure if i would enjoy starting over again with a pick. Literally haven't used one since my first few yrs playing over 30yrs ago so its a major undertaking to relearn and not sure i would be as competent or comfortable.
Might give it a try though and put my ego to one side.

Dave
[/quote]It is a swine if you are used to one style and need to re learn another.

I know when my lot were doing more bluesy stuff I started playing finger style as I felt the tone suited the style better. Took a while but I got to a point where I was happy with the style, and managed to work in things that I could not do with a pick.

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm 90% a fingers player but for stuff like deep purple you can't beat rocking out with a pick! Remember a lot of parts will be simpler than what you have been doing without a pick before, legs astride, long strap, rock!

[lojo]

The positive thing is that your keyboard player wants you to cut through the mix!

If your finger playing can produce intricate playing that you can't do with a pick, then you could start practicing but it would take time

Otherwise as others have said, you can get some decent attack with fingers through /string choice and how you play, try that and see if you can achieve what they are after

Edited November 18, 2011 by lojo

[chris_b]

[size=4][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial]Is the keyboard player giving an order or is he giving an opinion? [/font][/color][/color][/font][/size][font="Arial"][size="2"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color][/color][/size][/font]
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[size=4][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial]I have not had this in a band before, but would probably say lump it or fire me! I would get into some aggressive EQing before I gave up the fight though. What gear are you using?[/font][/color][/color][/font][/size][font="Arial"][size="2"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color][/color][/size][/font]
[size=4][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/color][/font][/size][font="Arial"][size="2"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color][/color][/size][/font]
[size=4][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial]I'm sure I've seen Roger Glover, Nick Simper and many of the early rock players using finger style. What about "the Hulk" in Metallica? He doesn’t use a pick! [/font][/color][/color][/font][/size][font="Arial"][size="2"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color][/color][/size][/font]
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[ern500evo]

I agree with EssentialTension, dial in some high mids and just dig in a bit harder, should give you plenty of attack. It's a tricky one because obviously for you playing fingerstyle comes more naturally as you spent a lot of years doing it. Maybe at next rehearsal you could play a few songs with a pick, then add some eq, play them again fingerstyle and see what the guy's think? I only use a pick on a couple of songs and i can't wait to get them out the way usually, as like yourself, i've been playing mainly fingerstyle for 20+ years and playing with a pick feels a bit alien to me.

[spongebob]

When I played some fingerstyle in my covers band this week instead of my normal pick, I asked the band at the end what they thought about the change in tone, and how it sounded within the group.

All four replied the same - 'didn't realise you were doing anything different'!

I'd go with the school of thought that the bass is your business - do what sounds good, and what you feel comfy doing.

[ern500evo]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1321634395' post='1441509']
I'm 90% a fingers player but for stuff like deep purple you can't beat rocking out with a pick! Remember a lot of parts will be simpler than what you have been doing without a pick before, legs astride, long strap, rock!
[/quote]Thats it, i'm gigging at a friends birthday bash tonight, a freebie for all my mates so no pressure, think i'm now gonna drop the strap down on one of my basses and give it the old legs apart stance for proper rock out encore at the end!!

[Stag]

There's a lot of stigma attached to pick playing, in that it makes you "worse" than fingers. Its all about what you feel comfortable with, surely! You may feel more comfortable with fngers... I do, but some songs "work" better with a pick, the style, the sound, etc, so I change according to situation.

I wouldnt say that Chris Squire is toss becuase he uses a pick.

[paul_5]

I've been in the reverse situation. I'm wholeheartedly a finger player, though I was once doing a studio job and I suggested that I use a pick for one particular track, which was very much frowned upon. I won in the end, and everyone agreed that it DID sound better within the context of the track.

Bit of a moral victory, as I had cramps in my thumb for hours afterwards.

Hey Ho. As bassists we're there to serve the track. That's it.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1321633572' post='1441495'] Valid point. I think a lot of it is my ego. A lot of it is also the fact that I'm not sure if i would enjoy starting over again with a pick. Literally haven't used one since my first few yrs playing over 30yrs ago so its a major undertaking to relearn and not sure i would be as competent or comfortable. Might give it a try though and put my ego to one side. Dave [/quote]

good idea. Being in a band IMO is all about the band sound as a whole, so it's always good to listen to suggestions from other members of the band even if it's not something you'd do normally. If you and the band think it sounds better then good, if not then it doesn't really matter, at least you gave it a go

Edited November 18, 2011 by EdwardHimself

[dmccombe7]

I'm not averse to anyone using a pick and admire many pick players from various styles.
Its nothing whatsoever to do with that.

I think the ego is probably the bigger issue and i should maybe put that to one side and give it a go.
It was mainly a suggestion and not a demand but i may have made more of it than the band did.

It did annoy me quite a bit as it questions my ability and i just feel that if they wanted a pick player they should have auditoned that fact and not taken a fingerstyle bassist.

They have all stated on several occasions that i have been the best likeable bassist they had auditioned over 18mths and they couldn't believe it when i went for the audition. That was based on my fingerstyle technique though.

Its a hard one and I'm gonna have to give it some deep thought.

Might try the EQ and longer finger nails again. I just find that with a pick or finger nails i get a lot of fret buzz which isn't there on fingerstyle.

Dave

[Twigman]

Would that I could use a pick again...there are some songs in our catalogue (at least one of which is in our current live set) that work much better with a pick ( those digdiggadig rhythms ) but since damaging the nerve to my right hand a couple of years ago I don't have enough grip strength to use a pick...and keep dropping it.

[Wil]

I used to be 100% fingers and thought I could make that work in any context. Now I'm probably 80% pick, I've come round to the idea that in some situations it just sounds right, and playing some parts with a pick has actually made my life a lot easier, I'd be struggling to keep up with fingers. I'm enjoying it more than I thought I would too, pick technique has more depth than people give it credit for.

[Paul S]

Billy Sheehan has been mentioned, you could point them in the direction of Geezer Butler? Steve Harris? Pete Way? Do they lack attack? I find it odd that they chose you to play bass for them and now want you to play differently.

FWIW I play rock (and everything else) with a pick.

[spongebob]

I found last week that the fingers gave so much more bottom end - can that ever be emulated with a pick?

[risingson]

[quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1321637045' post='1441556']
I found last week that the fingers gave so much more bottom end - can that ever be emulated with a pick?
[/quote]

Using a harder pick and EQing in the right amount of low end should work. Flimsier picks can have the effect of zapping your low end I find. Generally if I need low end though I'll use my fingers. I'll reach for a pick if I want a bit more of a driving mid-rangey sound or I want to do the Carol Kaye impression