mrtcat Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Hi all, After some advice rom other band players. We have a decent drummer in our band. Playing wise he's great, really solid and puts a lot of energy into our sound. The problem is that when we're not playing he's a total headache. Firstly he's got an obsession with money. We are a pub rock band playing classic rock covers. We always get our £250 asking price and I believe that's more than many of our rival bands get. Drummer however is now insisting we charge £300 - £400 a night. If we play O'Neills we can get that much but most of our gigs are regular pubs. I don't think we'll get that much and end up pricing ourselves out of gigs. Next issue is that he goes on to our online calendar and blanks off masses of dates well in advance. This means we already only have a maximum of 30 gigs a year for 2012. We will fill them but he's blanking off dates that he has no plans for just to control how much we play. He has just announced his wife is pregnant and due in march and has said as a result he'll be unavailable in march April and may. Finally he complains about where we play. He only wants to practice one a week tops but can't see why we're not playing the O2 every week. What would you do? He's a bloody good drummer and there's a shortage of them round here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 [quote name='mrtcat' post='1371944' date='Sep 13 2011, 03:12 PM']Hi all, He's a bloody good drummer and there's a [b]shortage of them [/b]round here.[/quote] That's the crux. But, my advice is that you try and resolve it in some way before it festers and ruins what sounds like a succesful band. As the old saying goes, graveyards are full of people who thought they were indispensible. How do the rest of the band feel about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 [quote name='Len_derby' post='1371956' date='Sep 13 2011, 03:19 PM']How do the rest of the band feel about this?[/quote] Previously they've all been pretty laid back and accepted it as a trade off for his good skills but now it's really starting to reduce how much we can play. Nobody else is worried about the cash tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Get another drummer and share the drum seat between two or more drummers. It'll keep you gigging, with other people too... best not to get too precious about it all. Afterall, if it becomes hard work, it's no longer fun. Sounds like the drummer needs some spare time - so see if you can get another on board to gig share with... this keeps you playing with at least one good drummer some of the time. It's better than playing with a not as good drummer all of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='1371969' date='Sep 13 2011, 03:29 PM']Get another drummer and share the drum seat between two or more drummers.[/quote] That's a pretty sensible suggestion. With his wife being up the duff we can easily pitch it to him as a way of helping him out. If we also take on a second drummer and be totally upfront about the situation it will give current drummer chance to choose his availability. Our guitarist is in an originals band and his drummer has offered to dep before. May be worth a chat with current guy first then approaching him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Its hard to comment unless i know more about the situation, like is he last in, where the rest of you friends before etc. But what I do know is, most people are who they are, you might be able to alter his actions a little through heart to heart chats, but the bottom line is, mostly you have to take people at face value and decide if its worth it (good vs bad points), if not resolve it quickly for the sake of everyone, even if that means parting You mention he will become a Dad, that could change everything anyway, but again that will depend on the dynamics in his family unit, personally I carried on as normal with outside activities when my kids where young, my wife is cool, but it doesn't work for everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Find a dep? If he can't play a gig use the dep. Sooner or later if he doesn't buck up then he will effectively be the dep. Just finding the drummer is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) Get a dep in. The same thing has happened to a band I'm in where the drummer couldn't show commitment. We got other drummers in to do the gigs he couldn't do. Eventually you may find one that is as good as your original drummer (we found one that was even better) and you can offer him the job. Luckily there's no hard feelings and the first drummer still does the odd gig with us. You can't be held back by just one member. Edited September 13, 2011 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 [attachment=89313:dr670.jpg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 We formed three years ago with another drummer. He moved to Sweden before our first gig and the current chap stepped in. None of us knew each other previously but we all get on well (current drummer included). He already has one little boy and his wife is really cool. He's just a bit of a drama queen and loves to moan. He also has a habit of cncelling gigs at short notice. Family will always come first for him which I totally understand but it just seems he enjoys being awkward with the band. A second drummer would at least take a bit of the power away from him and could make his life easier while his new baby is young. None of us want an ugly fall out as we have had some really good times together so I think talking to him is the best approach and offering a possible way to take pressure off him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 [quote name='mrtcat' post='1371963' date='Sep 13 2011, 03:24 PM']Previously they've all been pretty laid back and accepted it as a trade off for his good skills but now it's really starting to reduce how much we can play. Nobody else is worried about the cash tho.[/quote] IME bands with mixed motivations dont last. I play purely for fun (as my day job pays extremely well) and was once in a function band where some of the other members of the band depended on the money. They would book far away gigs that result in me needing to take time off work that amounted to lost income for me that in a few cases was more than the entire band was getting paid - it would literally have been cheeper for me to pay the bands fee to stay at home than to actually do the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='1372007' date='Sep 13 2011, 03:53 PM'][attachment=89313:dr670.jpg][/quote] Haha the "non moaning non complaining alternative".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 [quote name='mrtcat' post='1371944' date='Sep 13 2011, 03:12 PM']Hi all, After some advice rom other band players. We have a decent drummer in our band. Playing wise he's great, really solid and puts a lot of energy into our sound. The problem is that when we're not playing he's a total headache. Firstly he's got an obsession with money. We are a pub rock band playing classic rock covers. We always get our £250 asking price and I believe that's more than many of our rival bands get. Drummer however is now insisting we charge £300 - £400 a night. If we play O'Neills we can get that much but most of our gigs are regular pubs. I don't think we'll get that much and end up pricing ourselves out of gigs.[/quote] Sounds like you need to just "take a vote" on it and then be done with it. [quote]Next issue is that he goes on to our online calendar and blanks off masses of dates well in advance. This means we already only have a maximum of 30 gigs a year for 2012. We will fill them but he's blanking off dates that he has no plans for just to control how much we play. He has just announced his wife is pregnant and due in march and has said as a result he'll be unavailable in march April and may. Finally he complains about where we play. He only wants to practice one a week tops but can't see why we're not playing the O2 every week. What would you do? He's a bloody good drummer and there's a shortage of them round here.[/quote] 1. 30 gigs a year is still a fair amount. 2. Taking time off for having a baby is not unreasonable. Two or three weeks either side of the due date strikes me as perfectly reasonable. It sounds to me like you need to have a "band discussion" with regards how "pro" you want to be. You need to all sit down and work out whether you want to be gigging once or twice a week or whether you want to gig less often. Then you need to discuss it with him. If it turns out the rest of you want to gig a lot more then maybe you should ask him if he minds if you get a regular dep in. As a married man (no kids yet) I can totally understand where he's coming from. You just need to be upfront, polite, and realistic when discussing with the rest of the band (and him) where you see the band going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 PS I can totally imagine the corresponding post on a drum forum: "hey guys, I've been playing drums with this band and they're really great---but they're giving me total mixed messages. They want to gig every week and make a real go at doing this 'properly', but when I suggested that we actually charge what I think we're worth they didn't want to know. I don't understand why they want to rehearse and gig like a pro band but they keep selling us short when it comes to getting paid. What should I do??" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 [quote name='mrtcat' post='1372016' date='Sep 13 2011, 03:58 PM']Haha the "non moaning non complaining alternative"..[/quote] And you only have to punch the data into it once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 [quote name='bassman7755' post='1372015' date='Sep 13 2011, 03:57 PM']IME bands with mixed motivations dont last. I play purely for fun (as my day job pays extremely well) and was once in a function band where some of the other members of the band depended on the money. They would book far away gigs that result in me needing to take time off work that amounted to lost income for me that in a few cases was more than the entire band was getting paid - [b]it would literally have been cheeper for me to pay the bands fee to stay at home than to actually do the gig.[/b][/quote] Will you join my band please??? Oh, and by the way we have a very well-paying gig next week in Thurso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) £250 for a pub gig is fair. There was a band that used to gig locally to me, pubs used to pay them abt the same. They were always gigging. I heard on the rumour-mill that they put their price up to £400. This remarkably coincided with the time they stopped getting gigs. There will always be one in the band who wants to control how many gigs the band does, and it`s always the one who wants to do the least. Invariably they use that "we`re worth more" line as an excuse. 30 gigs is still once a fortnight at least, which I`d be more than happy with. I`d say it`s best that you all sit down together, and find out what your gigging expectations are. If the three of you want 40, and he wants 15, one side is going to need to either compromise, or make a decision. And from experience, it`s unlikely someone wanting 15 gigs a year will compromise, and say ok, 40 is fine. Get it all out in the open, see what you all want to do. And it`s worth pointing out that two £250 gigs a month nets you more money than one £400 gig every other month. Edited September 13, 2011 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 on the moby right now so I've just gone to ghe end of tjis thread but I guess a few fellas have offered this opinion, too: sack him, get a a beat-box and start up a new website. Sorted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Your drummer might be good but there's a tipping point when good isn't enough. I'm in the same boat. I play with a great drummer but there are too many "issues" so he'd be the first to go if I was in charge. Unfortunately, I'm not! Your drummer has to go. You might not find one as good as him but you should find one that is good enough. If you really have to keep this guy, just find a dep, and keep telling him how good the dep is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witterth Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) £250/£300 for a pub gig is pretty much all youre gonna get these days, especially when you consider the rate they are shutting up shop. ( regardless of how good you are thats usually all there is, even with the O'neills chain, who can be pushed a bit further on occasion, they are struggling) we'd all like to be paid "what we're worth" but it seems right now the money just isnt there. some one had to say it, "steering whell in the crotch of your pants?.......THATS driving your nuts" (allready have coat on) Edited September 13, 2011 by witterth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 If the drummer doesn't want to play certain dates then start looking for a drummer who could fill-in (I know, easier said than done, but worth trying anyway). Then the ball is in the drummer's court rather than the rest of the band having to confront him and have a big row. The drummer can hardly complain if you all play a gig that he doesn't want to, plus you'll all be prepared for when baby-drummer arrives - although a baby in the house may encourage him to play every available gig just to get out of the house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I would say if he's a good drummer and a decent guy then keep him - it sounds as if the other guys are reasonably happy about the situation and you may risk marginalising your own position in the band. It is not as if his points are particularly unreasonable. Thirty gigs a year and rehearsing once a week is about right for a good classic rock covers band and playing fewer but better gigs for more money (and travelling further afield) isn't a bad idea IF you can get the right bookings! If you want to gig more, why not look for a side project or dep for another band! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Learn to play the drums and get a dep bass player......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Be on the look out for another one..and then dep the gig out on one of his blanket bookings. Every band has these little hiccups every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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