Valve Amps

[Pete Academy]

When I first started playing in the 70s and went to watch bands, the best bass sounds I heard were always with players using valve amps.

A band playing a local gig with an Orange stack blew me away; Norman Watt-Roy with Ian Dury cut through the mix like a knife; a major many-piece funk band was dominated by the bass sound.

A few years ago I invested in a Marshall VBA400. The best sound I ever had. Got rid because the head was simply too heavy to carry.

Recently, the Ashdown BTA400 sounds awesome.

At a gig last week we played a double-bill and I played through an Ampeg SVT and 8 x 10". The sheer amount of air that the stack was shifting was just awesome.

I use a small but powerful rig nowadays, but you just cannot beat the sound of valves. The natural midrange guarantees you will cut through any mix.

Anyone agree?

[Pete Academy]

Oh for roadies!

[Kiwi]

I'm not sure I'd agree valves have more midrange. It's possible to design flat response valve amps as well. The Mesa Boogie Strategy 400 I had was a good example of that and the offerings by Avalon too. That 8x10 cab you used would have a very strong mid bias however but not a lot of clarity. If I wanted midrange, I would have gone for a GK solid state head myself.

[warwickhunt]

I've owned a couple of valve amps and other than the early (70's) unreliability, I personally thought my Mesa Boogie valve amp could have cut glass! There's a lot to be said for valve amps but personally I'm just as happy with a modern SS amp.

[Ancient Mariner]

I'm not so sure valves are critical for great bass tone, but in the guitar world there's just nothing like them. I own just one SS amp these days - a Tech 21 Trademark 60 - and it's not a patch on a nice 18 watter. Except when it's being carried......

[Musicman20]

Absolutely agree, especially with the Orange comment

I love my small amps, but I'll just keep the orange stack anyway. Nothing sound like it. Luckily it can do 8 ohms and it's not as heavy as an SVT!

[retroman]

Valves all the way for me You can't beat the glowing bottles of goodness, and I would be very reluctant to go back to solid state.

[Pete Academy]

Valves seem to create a powerful midrange that cuts through without any tone boost.

[JTUK]

hmmm not sure.

Both an SVT and some Boogies sound nice but I wouldn't want to be carting them around so they are not that great for me.

An SVT on stage is as much iconic as anything, IMV.
What I do like about valves is that with a decent bass, you just plug in and turn up, pretty much, and you are there.
But that isn't impossible on SS amps.

I prefer the hybrid with a valve pre...that does enough for me.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='JTUK' post='806900' date='Apr 15 2010, 10:19 AM']hmmm not sure.

Both an SVT and some Boogies sound nice but I wouldn't want to be carting them around so they are not that great for me.

An SVT on stage is as much iconic as anything, IMV.
What I do like about valves is that with a decent bass, you just plug in and turn up, pretty much, and you are there.
But that isn't impossible on SS amps.

I prefer the hybrid with a valve pre...that does enough for me.[/quote]

Agree. It's the weight thing.

[WHUFC BASS]

I'd say that Trace Elliot amp, either valve or SS/vavle hybrid are amps you can just plug into and get a decent sound. I really like the sound of Trace Amps - especailly the older versions (pre-Gibson).

I've played through an SVT 5 and Ampeg 8x10 and yes, the sound was huge - but this was an outdoor gig in front of 2000 people. I wouldn't want to be lugging that rig around for the average pub / club gig. Its just complete overkill.

[thumperbob 2002]

Had loads of valve amp ( and SS for that )- there is something about a valve amp that just "does it "

Saying that I have sold my VBA400 ( again too heavy for many gigs )- If I was just playing 1-2 per month that would be OK but as I`m not it had to go.

I think I have my best sound now using a Sansamp Deluxe plus my Schroeder cabs ( the amps are really just to power the speakers.)

Very, Very Light- no thinking at the end of a gig "bloody hell- now I have to cart that to the car/van!!"

Bob

[casapete]

Agree with you Bob. (Although your rig sounded fine to these ears on Saturday!)
Nothing like a proper valve amp and an 8x10 - is that why they still crop up on major stages worldwide?
Miss my Ampeg SVT rig, but my back doesn't. And am still not convinced about amps with just a preamp valve - for me its a
combination of full valve preamp driving a valve power amp section that makes the sound.

[Pentode]

I love my Ampegs - B25, V4 and SVT :brow:

The 'great' sound of valves, IMO, is from overdriving the power section and doing this with an SVT without injuring children and small animals isn't always possible.

Cue the smaller amps - the tone from the B25 is, again IMO, just righteous and at a reasonable volume.

I've yet to hear a valve preamp replicate this but I'm still looking.

But as everybody says, an all-valve head is bloody heavy...

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='806796' date='Apr 15 2010, 08:19 AM']Valves seem to create a powerful midrange that cuts through without any tone boost.[/quote]

That doesn't make sense to me. Every amp is different with a different frequency response, so while one amp might require you turn up the mids, another might not, and they could easily both be valve amps.

I understand that nothing "quite" works like a valve, but IMHO technology has come so far as to make them redundant. Perhaps you do want that "natural warmth" that a valve gives you, but it might be cheaper and easier to get your EQ and compression/OD right, or use a modeller. Likewise it's perfectly possible to make a totally "transparent" valve amp, with absolutely no "natural warmth".

I know loads of people will disagree, but i've not yet read anything rational about why SS can't do what valves can.

It's a big like an argument we had about modelling. There was one member on here who claimed they could tell what kind of amp someone was playing from OUTSIDE a venue. It just doesn't make any sense. There's EQ on the bass, there could be pedals, compressors, all sorts of different cabs etc. Some people are just irrational.

[Doddy]

Valves don't really bother me all that much.
As good as the new Ashdown is and as much as I've enjoyed using the occasional
SVT 2,I generally prefer a solid state amp.
I find that for me,a solid state amp is more 'hi-fi' sounding compared to the warmth
you get with valves. Having said that,nothing sounds like an overdriven valve amp.
The weight issue is also big for me-I don't want to carry something that heavy.

[umph]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='806755' date='Apr 15 2010, 12:37 AM']Absolutely agree, especially with the Orange comment

I love my small amps, but I'll just keep the orange stack anyway. Nothing sound like it. Luckily it can do 8 ohms and it's not as heavy as an SVT![/quote]
the orange amps in the 80s were very very different to the ones nowadays.

I love valves i've never been able to nail a good tone out of most SS amps i've tried.

[umph]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='807308' date='Apr 15 2010, 04:25 PM']That doesn't make sense to me. Every amp is different with a different frequency response, so while one amp might require you turn up the mids, another might not, and they could easily both be valve amps.

I understand that nothing "quite" works like a valve, but IMHO technology has come so far as to make them redundant. Perhaps you do want that "natural warmth" that a valve gives you, but it might be cheaper and easier to get your EQ and compression/OD right, or use a modeller. Likewise it's perfectly possible to make a totally "transparent" valve amp, with absolutely no "natural warmth".

I know loads of people will disagree, but i've not yet read anything rational about why SS can't do what valves can.

It's a big like an argument we had about modelling. There was one member on here who claimed they could tell what kind of amp someone was playing from OUTSIDE a venue. It just doesn't make any sense. There's EQ on the bass, there could be pedals, compressors, all sorts of different cabs etc. Some people are just irrational.[/quote]

it's to do with the way valves produce harmonics it's very hard to capture with modelling although there have been some good efforts such as some of the sansamp pedals. Nothing comes close tone wise to kt88s though in my opinion

[basshead56]

I adore my VBA400 rig-nothing but a Panzer Division can make this much noise and mayhem.
Put havent tried plugging a 70´s Precision into a Panzer tank yet.
Cannot believe how loud it is, or how nice the sound is. The contour switch is amazing.

That said, my back doesn´t like the look of it one bit-nor does our roadie and drummer!
Weight is a killer, but its worth it.
There are some real gems when it comes to valve stuff

That said, I have heard some fairly poor valve amps aswell.
I owned a Mesa 400+, but it would always give me grief-valves popping, power cutting out etc and it was definately not the monster I expected soundwise.
Tried aa SVT VR recently-totally crestfallen with it. Was expecting a monster of a sound-weak as a box of diabetic kittens chasing wool!
no oomph at all.

Some of the solid state stuff I have owned has been great, and some dire.
My Fender 400 Pro head was a fantastic bit of kit, as was my Trace ellot 8x10 combo (no idea of model)
Had a GK backlne thing that farted out after a week. Not really a fan of Ashdown, but the mini stack I sold recently was unbelievable.Played loads of gigs with it and it cut through no problem!
Laney R4 wasn´t bad either-my first stack, lightweight and big sounding-just a lttle something missing.

My current Solid State amp is an Ampeg B500DR digital.
Sounts exactly the same as an SVT3 Pro and can even get pretty close to the Classic aswell-though gain tends to differentiate it the more its pushed.
I will NEVER get rid of it-cracker of an amp!

There is no real bottom line on the issue. Its a subjective thing and there are a million other factors involved the decision making process.
weight, cost, value for money, maintenance, storage/transport etc etc
Once you get a tone you want-does it really matter if the power section is valve or ss?
FWIW, my next and probably final amp purchase will be an Orange Bass Terror-haven´t owned a decent Hybrid before and loving the sound of them.

[Davo-London]

Played a few SVT rigs with 8x10 and I don't like the sound.

I want to hear the bass amplified. Not coloured to an extent that I don't recognise the bass.

Sorry, I have to disagree. I have a high end valve pre-amp, that coupled with a Crown or QSC would make sense. Or a decent SS amp from Markbass and a modern speaker from Epifani, AccuGroove, Barefacedbass etc sounds so much better to me.

Carry on ...

Davo

[Tech]

i would love to go on tour - just so i could warrant getting a really nice big valve stack to saturate (guitar or bass would do!)

more realistically though I do love the sound of valve amps - I had a valve trace preamp that had a gnarly tone, but nothing compares to a full SVT 8x10 stack... had the luxury of playing a gig through one once and I really almost creamed. I guess it depends on what you grew up listening to... but for me when I played through that stack, for the first time in my life I was sounding like the bassists on the records that I loved hearing.

...point slighty tarnished that they were probably linkin park and blink 182

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='basshead56' post='807356' date='Apr 15 2010, 04:56 PM']I adore my VBA400 rig-nothing but a Panzer Division can make this much noise and mayhem.
Put havent tried plugging a 70´s Precision into a Panzer tank yet.
Cannot believe how loud it is, or how nice the sound is. The contour switch is amazing.

That said, my back doesn´t like the look of it one bit-nor does our roadie and drummer!
Weight is a killer, but its worth it.
There are some real gems when it comes to valve stuff

That said, I have heard some fairly poor valve amps aswell.
I owned a Mesa 400+, but it would always give me grief-valves popping, power cutting out etc and it was definately not the monster I expected soundwise.
Tried aa SVT VR recently-totally crestfallen with it. Was expecting a monster of a sound-weak as a box of diabetic kittens chasing wool!
no oomph at all.

Some of the solid state stuff I have owned has been great, and some dire.
My Fender 400 Pro head was a fantastic bit of kit, as was my Trace ellot 8x10 combo (no idea of model)
Had a GK backlne thing that farted out after a week. Not really a fan of Ashdown, but the mini stack I sold recently was unbelievable.Played loads of gigs with it and it cut through no problem!
Laney R4 wasn´t bad either-my first stack, lightweight and big sounding-just a lttle something missing.

My current Solid State amp is an Ampeg B500DR digital.
Sounts exactly the same as an SVT3 Pro and can even get pretty close to the Classic aswell-though gain tends to differentiate it the more its pushed.
I will NEVER get rid of it-cracker of an amp!

There is no real bottom line on the issue. Its a subjective thing and there are a million other factors involved the decision making process.
weight, cost, value for money, maintenance, storage/transport etc etc
Once you get a tone you want-does it really matter if the power section is valve or ss?
FWIW, my next and probably final amp purchase will be an Orange Bass Terror-haven´t owned a decent Hybrid before and loving the sound of them.[/quote]

My old Marshall VBA400 was awesome. I never had to EQ it, as the sound was just perfect every time. It was just the sheer weight.

I love my little Markbass rig, but it was plugging into a huge SVT rig recently that brought back to me how great big gear really is.

I sold my VBA to a mate and went to watch him play at a pub gig using it. The sound just filled the room without getting in the way of anything else, and punched through the mix.

[xilddx]

We so need a full on lab comparison between a valve rig and a digital modeler.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='umph' post='807345' date='Apr 15 2010, 04:51 PM']the orange amps in the 80s were very very different to the ones nowadays.

I love valves i've never been able to nail a good tone out of most SS amps i've tried.[/quote]

Oh I agree, but for the prices/weight/ohm capability/style the Orange won me over in an a/b against an SVT CL and VR. The Ampeg 8x10 was also poor at low volumes whereas the Orange cabs were spot on. Plug in, play.

Obviously they were all modern versions though.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Musicman20

[Born 2B Mild]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='807506' date='Apr 15 2010, 07:12 PM']I sold my VBA to a mate and went to watch him play at a pub gig using it. The sound just filled the room without getting in the way of anything else, and punched through the mix.[/quote]
Interested to hear you say that Pete. I usually use a Shuttle 6.0 but recently I gigged an old school valve amp with two of my bands. Both band's guitarists separately expressed delight, with one commenting that whereas the Shuttle could be heard, (a bit too "in your face" as he put it) with the valve amp he said I "could be felt as well as heard". It just seems to fill out so much and in a benign sort of way.