Do Basses get better when they get older?

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='6834' date='May 25 2007, 09:48 PM']To be honest, I don't know that age is the factor per se. But there's definitely a difference between a heavily gigged bass and a new bass in terms of feel. I like heavily gigged basses because they feel more broken in and supple. Having said that, there are some manufacturers who do a pretty good job of getting a broken in feel on new basses, Ken Smith and Celinder to name but two.[/quote]

Bear in mind also that Smiths, Celinders et al are made from high quality tonewoods that are likely to have been carefully selected and well aged before being made into anythng.
I would suggest that the wooden elements are pretty settled by the time that they are subjected to manufacturing processes, and that a prolongues period of use wouldn't cause much change.
That's certainly my experience with my (now decade-old) Vigier. It hasn't obviously changed.

Some less exotic instruments I own, such as my Ibanez SRX700 [i]have[/i] mellowed substantially. It needed to! All bright and twangy, almost to the point of having little real character. That's improving after 5 years of ownership.

A lot of the comments seem to centre on necks smoothing-in, playing in, then wearing out. Likewise pick-ups losing their "edge". Bodies, by contrast seem to improve and then settle down (unless well-aged before building).

Would the best long-term prospect be one of these;

Musicman Cutlass
Graphite-Necked Status
Modulus
Vigier Passion S2
or even...
A Steinberger??

Then change pick-ups, nuts, tuners and saddles as they wear out? What do violinists/cellists do? I [i]presume[/i] that they buy a solid, good sounding instrument, and do exactly this; replace the worn out "sundries" as they go along. Just as drivers of vintage cars still have to change tyres and exhausts etc.

Just a thought.

[99ster]

[quote name='bassbloke' post='6993' date='May 26 2007, 08:15 AM']the concept of 'Sounding Better' is subjective and relative.

My drummer mate did a session for Dizzee Rascal on '...later with Jools Holland' the other week. The bassist for the session had a very nice Ken Smith. Basschat members have all commented on the bass and how good it sounded. Nick Cave's band Grinderman were also playing, and their bassist had a beat up old Precision. My friend says that Dizzee's bass player went straight over to said Precision and was mavelling over it. Based purely on the actual market rate for the instrument itself witout the vintage element factored in, the Ken Smith is maybe 3 or 4 times more expensive and the product of many more hours labour.

Yet, given a boutique neck through active five string and a beat up old Precision (unsure of Vintage), the precision wins- on this occasion.

'Tis a strange world[/quote]

That's Martyn Casey - also the bass player from Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds. I love his playing.
That gorgeous bashed up old Fender Precision he plays is an early 60's (pre 64 I reckon) model - with white/cream, pick-up covers added. That's all I've ever seen him playing. Runs it through an Ampeg SVT CL - nice & LOUD.
Mmmmm... lovely.


And your mate is one hell of a good drummer!

[Breakfast]

I was just thinking maybe there's an evolutionary element as well- the instruments that have survived from the early sixties and not fallen to pieces are probably the ones that have the better build quality just cos the more rubbish ones already fell apart.

[BOD2]

[quote name='Breakfast' post='7649' date='May 27 2007, 02:46 PM']I was just thinking maybe there's an evolutionary element as well- the instruments that have survived from the early sixties and not fallen to pieces are probably the ones that have the better build quality just cos the more rubbish ones already fell apart.[/quote]


Slightly off-topic but that's something that has always puzzled me. Where are all the basses and guitars that were manufcatured over that last 5 decades or more. There must have been millions of them made. And when you add in all tjhe copies etc. etc. Where have they all gone ?

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='BOD2' post='7675' date='May 27 2007, 03:44 PM']Slightly off-topic but that's something that has always puzzled me. Where are all the basses and guitars that were manufcatured over that last 5 decades or more. There must have been millions of them made. And when you add in all tjhe copies etc. etc. Where have they all gone ?[/quote]

I saw a Fender feature in a guitar mag a few years ago and they interviewed a bigwig at Fender and he said much the same thing. Bearing in mind that they were making 500,000+ guitars and basses at the time, they had no idea where they were all going. There is an insatiable market for the relics in Japan though.

When I started playing in the 1970s I could only afford one bass and everyone I knew was in much the same position. If you look at the price of instruments then relative to the average wage, even a bog standard Fender was a major investment. I started on a no name Ric copy then upgraded to an Aria, then a Gibson. It wasn't till the late 80s that I could afford a genuine Fender.The norm was to have only one guitar. These days they are so much more affordable in real terms that people think nothing of having two or three or more high end basses or guitars.

Edited May 27, 2007 by PaulMartin

[oldbass]

My vintage P bass feels beautifully worn etc but doesn't sound that great..my new Squire sounds amazing but doesn't feel as nice as the old one.....0.2$

[chris_b]

Swap the pickups over.

[bassbiscuits]

For me older - but not necessarily vintage - instruments do feel and play better, up to a point.

I assume its factors such as described above; the wood settling, the stiffness of a new instrument subsiding, and then all sorts of semi-mythic factors like the wood drying out in older nitro-finished instruments.

I say 'up to a point' because age doesn't make a bad bass good, and with the ageing and 'played in' feel also can come less welcome things like crackly pots, worn or rusting hardware, worn down frets, chewed up screw threads etc.

All my current basses are secondhand (between eight and 46 years old), and feel to me a lot more comfortable than stiff new ones I've owned along the way.

[Cato]

A while ago I read about a guy who was blasting his intruments with sound and/or vibration to simulate decades of being played. ( cant 't remember where, it might even have been on here).

Apparently it realigned the wood molecules to give the instrument that special vintage flavour or some such jiggery pokery.

Snake oil anyone?

[keefbaker]

Well, My main bass I got in 94 and it's frets certainly haven't got better with time. That said I've never took the thing to a luthier to do any work on it, I've just cleaned the fretboard and body a few times.

[bassbiscuits]

[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1456414591' post='2988803']
A while ago I read about a guy who was blasting his intruments with sound and/or vibration to simulate decades of being played. ( cant 't remember where, it might even have been on here).

Apparently it realigned the wood molecules to give the instrument that special vintage flavour or some such jiggery pokery.

Snake oil anyone?
[/quote]

Don't some makers do that now, i.e. vibration treating the bodies to simulate string vibrations thru the body?

[BigRedX]

Do Basschat threads get better as they get older?

[Painy]

[quote name='bassbiscuits' timestamp='1456415424' post='2988819']


Don't some makers do that now, i.e. vibration treating the bodies to simulate string vibrations thru the body?
[/quote]

Yamaha have an artificial aging process they use on the wood for some of their higher end instruments - there are clips on YouTube of Billy Sheehan mentioning it's use on the latest Attitude model. Something to do with the way the Sapp in the wood crystallizes apparently. No idea if there's any real science behind it but apparently they have spent "literally millions of dollars" developing the process according to Billy!

[ped]

[quote name='Painy' timestamp='1456421320' post='2988902']


Yamaha have an artificial aging process they use on the wood for some of their higher end instruments - there are clips on YouTube of Billy Sheehan mentioning it's use on the latest Attitude model. Something to do with the way the Sapp in the wood crystallizes apparently. No idea if there's any real science behind it but apparently they have spent "literally millions of dollars" developing the process according to Billy!
[/quote]

Yep - see post on page 1 from BOD2 a few years ago!

[ead]

My basses get better when other people play them

[SubsonicSimpleton]

If you really believe that an instrument old or new is special, then you'll play better on that instrument than one you dislike or feel indifferent about.

Sometime back there was a blind test conducted with old violins (including a couple of strads) vs newly made ones, and although the sample size was small, the new instruments came out ahead of the antiques - one luthier was quoted along the lines of "players will go to great lengths to work around any shortcomings of older instruments that are perceived to be special, but if a new instrument presented similar faults it would just be discarded."

[neepheid]

It's all poppycock, just play the damn bass

[bassbiscuits]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1456438539' post='2989145']
It's all poppycock, just play the damn bass
[/quote]

At the end of the day, yes this^^^

[blue]

Basses don't sound or get better with age. Hopefully with age our playing skills have gotten better. Especially with the learning tools available to the newer generation of players. With the tools available nobody should suck anymore.

Blue
[quote name='DirkThrust' timestamp='1180201820' post='7254']
I would love an old Fender. Not because I think it will do anything better than my new one, but they just have the character that only age can reproduce. As someone else stated, pick virtually any great recording from the past and the chances are it'll have a Fender on it. That link back to the roots of Rock n Roll keeps Fenders in particular in demand, and demand is always gonna outstrip supply.
[/quote]


Some of those Fenders from the early 70s weren't that great, action, intonation and neck problems were not uncommon.

My 2001 reissue 50s MIJ Fender P basses are much better sounding and play much better than anything I had in the 70s,

Blue

Edited February 26, 2016 by blue

[Twincam]

I'm on the fence in my opinion.
Scientifically it can actually be argued both ways. Say we have a old but well kept instrument that always goes to a luthier so it's frets are good and it's always set up etc.
Over time wood does change this is a fact, electrics also change too albeit in a minor way and any roughness will be knocked off in terms of feel. In a way a instrument settles in too it's new form, at a microscopic level we have all sorts of changes.
All this has potential to make an instrument different to when new be it good, bad or unoticable.
And the older instruments that we keep are generally the better ones anyhow. Not forgetting it probably takes longer than we think to get used to a different bass and able to play it too it's full potential.

A simple experiment could easily be performed, It wouldn't be the most sciientic but it would be interesting buy a brand new preferably up played bass, doesn't have to be an expensive one a cheaper p bass copy would be ideal. Then give it an exact setup making detailed setup measurements. Soon as its setup take various measurements of the "fresh" instrumemts output levels, sustain levels, frequency response etc etc. Then play it regularly and every 3-6 months have it put back into its exact setup specs and take the same measurements repeat for a few years and plot the measurements on a graph.
Ok not the most scientific experiment as we have changes in the strings even strings in the same batch have a little variation and we have fret wear even if the frets are always kept in good condition there's a varience, but I believe the basic data would give an idea of what we have changing and what is not.
I believe that might make an interesting project for anyone maybe a student could do this as a project even.

[graham1945]

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1456433509' post='2989085']
My basses get better when other people play them
[/quote]

Funny, thought that just happened to me!

Edited February 26, 2016 by graham1945

[keefbaker]

Also see: Sofas and arses.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='keefbaker' timestamp='1456478771' post='2989368']
Also see: Sofas and arses.
[/quote]

Sofas and arses get better when they get older?

[discreet]

[quote name='keefbaker' timestamp='1456478771' post='2989368']
Also see: Sofas and arses.
[/quote]

Neither! I prefer a firm young arse on a brand new sofa. Who wouldn't..?

[Twincam]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1456479044' post='2989371']


Sofas and arses get better when they get older?
[/quote]

Sofa's yes after a period of wear in.

Arses no! Especially after a errm period of wear in. Well discounting cometically enhanced ass lol!