Michael Manring

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Rich' post='652495' date='Nov 12 2009, 11:56 AM']Watch him carefully -- that's [i]four[/i] detuners on the headstock and at least two at the bridge.

For anyone not put off by his tunings or his trousers,[/quote]

My apologies - I hadn't realised the number of detuners. I'm sure that takes a great amount of skill. I'd almost like it to do something for me, but it doesn't.

As for his trousers - I hadn't noticed anything, what's supposed to wrong with them?

[ahpook]

[quote name='bumfrog' post='651800' date='Nov 11 2009, 05:24 PM']as technically impressive as it is, doesn't do anything for me and I just want to tell him to leave his fecking tuning pegs alone for more than a few seconds.[/quote]

plus the one

for solo fretless, i'd much rather listen to our very own spoombung

Edited November 12, 2009 by ahpook

[51m0n]

How about this side to his playing then??

[51m0n]

And for those of you who havent seen it, he gives some insight into the Hyperbass and where he's coming from in this:-

[wateroftyne]

I had a look at a few of these vids last night.

Frankly, I don't care what instrument it's played on, or what advanced technique he has to perform to play it.. [b]they just ain't good tunes[/b].

IMO, of course.

[Tinman]

I like it, it reminds me a great deal of some of Micheal Hedges stuff....haunting, off the wall and just different.

[lemmywinks]

Love these 2 videos, personally i think it's fantastic composition, beautiful melodies and genius musicianship rolled into one

Particularly like the way he uses the de-tuners to change the pitch if the harmonics, sounds lovely

I also like the way he occaisionally misses a harmonic and gets a mute or a scuffed note. There's hope for us all!

[ahpook]

[quote name='51m0n' post='652798' date='Nov 12 2009, 04:56 PM']How about this side to his playing then??[/quote]

a little more interesting, the guitar gives it some context, but to my ears it's just bolted on. the piece sounds like it was written for cello and guitar...i don't see what playing it on an ebow-ed fretless adds, apart from novelty value.

edit: although, having played a fretless with an ebow on a number of occasion i will say it takes some skill...
but that's not going to make me listen to the music.

i don't get off on listening to 'wow what a player' music for the technical ability of the players if the music doesn't get me as a whole, and then i'm listening to the music, and not the player...if that makes sense ?

Edited November 12, 2009 by ahpook

[bythesea]

[quote name='Tinman' post='652815' date='Nov 12 2009, 05:13 PM']I like it, it reminds me a great deal of some of Micheal Hedges stuff....haunting, off the wall and just different.[/quote]
He played a lot with Michael Hedges - there is at least one vid on Youtube of them together.

And I love his stuff - I'm going to see Stanley Clarke and Victor Wooten on Sunday but I would much rather have been able to make the MM gig in London recently.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='652810' date='Nov 12 2009, 05:07 PM']I had a look at a few of these vids last night.

Frankly, I don't care what instrument it's played on, or what advanced technique he has to perform to play it.. [b]they just ain't good tunes[/b].

IMO, of course.[/quote]

I used to have this argument with a young guitarist friend who was a genius, and kept on writing these more and more complex pieces for his band. Then wondered why he could never get the right musicians to play with. I kept challenging him to write a tune/song. He never understood the difference.

Even as a technically fantastic, and a pleasant enough piece of music, (as opposed to a tune/song)I do find the technique is disrupting the composition - all that using the right hand up the left hand end seems to break the flow, even when not watching.

[AdamWoodBass]

[quote name='chardbass' post='652596' date='Nov 12 2009, 01:13 PM']IMO when he plays like this he isn't a bassist- he's a musician/composer expressing himself through a (modified relative of a) bass guitar.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. People bash Jean Baudin for playing a 14 string bass but he doesn't actually describe himself as a bass player anymore and when your bass has a greater range than a grand piano I suppose you aren't a bass player anymore!

[purpleblob]

Technically brilliant. Musical, doesn't float my boat. But hey, each to their own

[Spoombung]

I quite like his stuff (apart from the slapping, tapping numbers). For me, he comes over as a musician with [i]good ideas[/i] and not just a bass guitarist. And he knows how to leave some space in his music - and that's rare enough in itself.

[4 Strings]

Am I allowed to post this?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waIhJDgC5dQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waIhJDgC5dQ[/url]

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='ahpook' post='652825' date='Nov 12 2009, 05:24 PM']a little more interesting, the guitar gives it some context, but to my ears it's just bolted on. the piece sounds like it was written for cello and guitar...i don't see what playing it on an ebow-ed fretless adds, apart from novelty value.

edit: although, having played a fretless with an ebow on a number of occasion i will say it takes some skill...
but that's not going to make me listen to the music.

i don't get off on listening to 'wow what a player' music for the technical ability of the players if the music doesn't get me as a whole, and then i'm listening to the music, and not the player...if that makes sense ?[/quote]

I think you're missing the point. that its played on the bass, or that hes changing the tuning, is secondary to what he's saying/communicating through the music. take technique, and that he's playing a bass out of the picture, and think of him as a composer

Edited November 12, 2009 by funkypenguin

[Mykesbass]

Doing this incredible stuff to me is like guitarists and shredding - there's always going to be someone to come along and do it faster with shredding, with bass, always someone to push the technique even further. In the end we'll always be going back to the James Jamersons, Bernard Edwards and Norman Watts Roys of this world.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='653222' date='Nov 12 2009, 11:43 PM']I think you're missing the point. that its played on the bass, or that hes changing the tuning, is secondary to what he's saying/communicating through the music. take technique, and that he's playing a bass out of the picture, and think of him as a composer[/quote]

I think he's good at that, but his music... I expect him to do all his writing in a cabin in the Adirondacks or something. That's the 'beaver documentary' vibe I get from his stuff. And if that's what he's shooting for then bloody hell he's a genius. It does all sound very similar to me though (probably the unique instrumentation has a lot to do with that).

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='Mykesbass' post='653225' date='Nov 12 2009, 11:47 PM']Doing this incredible stuff to me is like guitarists and shredding - there's always going to be someone to come along and do it faster with shredding, with bass, always someone to push the technique even further. In the end we'll always be going back to the James Jamersons, Bernard Edwards and Norman Watts Roys of this world.[/quote]

but i think its fair to say the bass world would be somewhat more boring without players like manring

[samkeen]

[quote name='Mykesbass' post='653225' date='Nov 12 2009, 11:47 PM']Doing this incredible stuff to me is like guitarists and shredding - there's always going to be someone to come along and do it faster with shredding, with bass, always someone to push the technique even further. In the end we'll always be going back to the James Jamersons, Bernard Edwards and Norman Watts Roys of this world.[/quote]

I know it's been said on this thread before so I'm just reiterating, but it's important not to look at the technique but listen to what he achieves with it. Technique's the key to better self expression. If the technique's what's being expressed, i.e. "look at my flashy chops" then I completely agree with you - we'll always be drawn back to people with something to say rather than people who say nothing but say it really really fast! I don't think this is the case with Michael though, I think his techniques let him speak more fluently.

[AdamWoodBass]

Ultimately I think the general vibe here is each to their own. I didn't really intend for this to become so heated but that fact that it has is very interesting and says a lot about the "meat and spuds bass player" versus "virtuoso". It's interesting to see some peoples responses to this. I personally look at Michael Manring and say "Wow look how much he's pushing the limits of what a bass can do!" and others are saying "yeah but he's no James Jamerson". Thats a fair comment, Michael Manring has played on no where near as many records as Jamerson did and is probably no where near as influential. I think there's too many levels to a bass player let alone music for people to say "this is what a bass player should be". For example you wouldn't put Robert Trujillo (sp?!) in a band with Chick Corea same as you wouldn't put John Patitucci in Pantera. Totally different stylistically but still genius at what they do. Personally I think of Michael Manring as a composer rather than bass player, same as Steve Lawson. Put it this way, if someone creates beautiful music using synths and computers are they any less of a musician? Yeah they aren't actually playing stuff more programming it but they still had to have the idea in the first place.

[skankdelvar]

Well, having watched that I'm astonished. What follows is [i]just my opinion [/i]and does not seek to deny in any way the pleasure some may experience from this piece.

I was under the impression I was going to see some sort of musical God and hear the voices of angels. What's delivered seems little more than that which a moderately accomplished amateur six-string guitarist might knock up in their bedroom. Turgid tune, crude and predictable use of harmonics and drop-tuners. In one word - clunky.

I cringed with embarrassment as I watched a grown man go gooey-faced while delivering something he does not realise is so comprehensively underwhelming. It seems to me that the approbation he garners is down to the fact he's doing it [i]on a bass[/i]! That's sad.

I'm terrified to think that brains might well explode if anyone here happened to trip over some Adrian Legg or Pierre Bensusan or Jerry Donahue. Speaking of whom - This is how to use harmonics - Start to 1:02. Not a drop tuner in sight - and [i]musical[/i].

Edited November 13, 2009 by skankdelvar

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='653262' date='Nov 13 2009, 12:49 AM']Well, having watched that I'm astonished. What follows is [i]just my opinion [/i]and does not seek to deny in any way the pleasure some may experience from this piece.

I was under the impression I was going to see some sort of musical God and hear the voices of angels. What's delivered seems little more than that which a moderately accomplished amateur six-string guitarist might knock up in their bedroom. Turgid tune, crude and predictable use of harmonics and drop-tuners. In one word - clunky.

I cringed with embarrassment as I watched a grown man go gooey-faced while delivering something he does not realise is so comprehensively underwhelming. It seems to me that the approbation he garners is down to the fact he's doing it [i]on a bass[/i]! That's sad.

I'm terrified to think that brains might well explode if anyone here happened to trip over some Adrian Legg or Pierre Bensusan or Jerry Donahue. Speaking of whom - This is how to use harmonics - Start to 1:02. Not a drop tuner in sight - and [i]musical[/i].

[/quote]

im not sure how you come to the conclusion that that introduction is musical and what manring is playing isnt

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='653262' date='Nov 13 2009, 12:49 AM']I cringed with embarrassment as I watched a grown man go gooey-faced while delivering something he does not realise is so comprehensively underwhelming. It seems to me that the approbation he garners is down to the fact he's doing it [i]on a bass[/i]! That's sad.[/quote]

I think your assessment (generally) is bang on the money to be honest. Maybe players like Manring appeal to very talented instrumentalists who've taken up the bass guitar and then realised to their horror a long way down the road that the instrument they've dedicated so much of their time to is actually fairly easy to play and more often than not very little is required of it.

I've never been a particularly impressive player so maybe that's why I'm not interested in it - I'm only really interested in making music as well as I can, never had a party piece.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='653271' date='Nov 13 2009, 01:30 AM']... the instrument they've dedicated so much of their time to is actually fairly easy to play and more often than not very little is required of it.[/quote]

It's really quite difficult to get [i]those[/i] sounds out of a bass - because it wasn't designed to do that job. Thus necessitating the entirely praiseworthy years of dedication and the addition of sundry bits of kit to the basic instrument.

I genuinely applaud their hard work and efforts but for me - judged on that piece alone - it just doesn't seem much return for the investment - [i]in my opinion[/i]. I may be wrong. Who cares? It's just the Internet.

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='653264' date='Nov 13 2009, 12:58 AM']im not sure how you come to the conclusion that that introduction is musical and what manring is playing isnt[/quote]

Just personal taste. To me the harmonics sound more "musical" (whatever that means) and more subtly integrated. As ever, one's mileage may vary - but thanks for checking it out.

Edited November 13, 2009 by skankdelvar

[chardbass]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='653272' date='Nov 13 2009, 01:30 AM']It's really quite difficult to get [i]those[/i] sounds out of a bass - because it wasn't designed to do that job. Thus necessitating the entirely praiseworthy years of dedication and the addition of sundry bits of kit to the basic instrument.

I genuinely applaud their hard work and efforts but for me - judged on that piece alone - it just doesn't seem much return for the investment - [i]in my opinion[/i]. I may be wrong. Who cares? It's just the Internet.[/quote]

A bit like someone turning water into wine when it would easier but less impressive to just buy a bottle of wine.

I enjoyed both clips by the way- the latter one wasn't pushing the envelope in any way which I think Captain Manring deserves some credit for. If a little of what he does filters through in some way, then music and bass playing benefits and evolves a little.
If it wasn't for the Jacos and Jamersons then we wouldn't have the Pinos etc. Horses for courses etc

Like I said in a previous post- it's all music so it's all good IMO