On stage sound

[thedontcarebear]

I didn't know where to put this, but anyway, I am sick of never hearing the bass on stage, I bought a kickback combo recently as I thought that would solve the issue, but it doesn't really, most venues I play won't put the bass through the monitors, and if they do, it's not much.

So, I guess it must be my sound, it's a lot worse when the guitarist uses his mesa instead of his engl, must be something to do with the frequencies we use clashing. Anyone got any idea of what to boost or cut? I want a funky but versatile sound, as our set is quite mixed.

[PURPOLARIS]

A bit off track but managing to hear your Bass on stage is absolutely brilliant. I borrowed a guys setup as we were playing a few songs between a set, it was our guitarists missus 40th and his other band and he wanted to do a few songs with us as well. The Bassist went through the PA only and I've got to say I was lost and playing by memory. I couldn't hear my Bass at all. How he manages like that I'll never know.

I always have a problem with our singer/guitarist telling me to turn my bass down. This mainly stems from the fact that he plays his acoustic guitar through the PA and therefore his sound is always in front of him and he kept saying he couldn't hear himself. I could hardly ever hear my Bass because of this. We eventually got a monitor and on Friday night I turned the volume up on the monitor for his guitar and vocals only and therefore got to hear (and feel ) my Bass the way it should be. Trace Elliot AH250 and TE 4x10 cab. Nothing major but it sounded awesome, I got a few good comments about it.

[plumbob]

Well if its for your own personal monitoring , start with the basics first .

Its surprising how much difference raising your speakers up on a chair or box will make , i like to feel the rumble through the floor but you will notice how many frequencies you are missing by raising the cab up especially if you have a horn in the cab.

I usually aim mine slightly on an angle towards the drummer but if your having trouble ,be completely selfish ,and tilt it back at you .

Also make sure the guy out front on the desk knows what sound your after ,you decide what sound you want out front and whether its straight bass di or di out of the amp , there is a difference , our sound guy once drove an hour round trip because somebody had forgot to put in my old valve ampeg amp in the van !

[andyonbass]

I used to get that problem, until I built my BFM Omni cabs, never had it since. The BFM has a very articulate midrange which cuts through the mix very well. You could try boosting the midrange a bit.

[Pete Academy]

I have to have my speaker cabs high up, so the top 4 x 8" cab is right by my ear. If it's lower I can't hear the higher or mid frequencies properly, due to years of having my ears pummelled. Sounds like you have a frequency clash - boosting mids is very important.

[JTUK]

can be very difficult to get past this...but my tendancy is to go for a brighter sound which cuts through if you are close to the cab itself and then working out how your cabs 'bloom' the further you get away from it..
---this is why 15's on their own can not be so helpful...they are BIG to start with--
You find that the sound thickens and gets a bit bassier like this...

If this is all the sound the bass gets, then you need to hear it off the stage to get a sound reference, if you are miking up then the FOH sound guy gets a nice clean sound to mix.
You can add bass in both of these instances but it is hard to bleed it off...
You can also feed this DI into the PA for subtle reinforcement and add the bass there..

And some guitarists are the worse for a bass sound as they can insist on their wall of sound thing...
If I see a Les Paul and a 4x12 then I am very wary of that sound dominating the freqs .. and if they have no sense of dynanmics then it will be a HARD slog all the way..and you beat youself up for something that ain't helped by the guitar hero...

Try a soundcheck without the guitar and then with it...and see what sort of problems you have from there..
It appears that guitars set-up for their perfect sound whereas bass has to compromise...#

Bandwise, your want a sound mix not a sound blast

Edited July 19, 2009 by JTUK

[Adrenochrome]

I cut bass frequencies and boost both low mids and high mids. The sound guy adds some bass for the punters to hear. Embrace the mids!

[molan]

Quick check question - is the main sound of your bass in the audience coming from your head & speaker or through the PA?

If it's the latter then the combination mentioned above will make a huge difference. Get the cab up off the floor & closer to your ears, a beer crat or even any old pub chair will do so long as it's reasonably secure. Alternatively get a decent speaker stand from someone like QuickLok.

Then play with your mids - these are generally the frequencies that will help you to hear yourself. This is often a problem with a lot of players who prefer a mid cut in their sound (classic smiley shape graphic setting). I tend to use a a little low mid cut in my sound but whenever I ahve problems hearing myself this is the first control I grab & start feeding those mids back in until I can hear properly.

I also often bring my tweeters back in as well for a bit of high end definition (I'm not a huge fan of tweeters & only use them when really necessary).

I have pretty good control over my stage sound because I'm sending a clean signal through the PA & our sound guy sets up a sound a like for front of house.

[Rayman]

Yeah we played in a large sports hall kind of venue last night. The sound was like mush, bouncing off the brick walls and high metal ceiling, but by boosting mids and highs I had a really great tone to my ears. I did find myself dropping a bit more bottom end in later on too as the sound was a bit thin for a couple of songs, but then I like a nice bright click anyway.

I feel that those who like a low end thump type tone struggle more than those of us who like it a bit brighter.

[Doddy]

I mic my rig and have my bass slightly louder than everything else in my in-ears.
That way I can hear myself comfortably and find that I don't have to hit the strings as hard as I'm not
fighting a volume war with the guitars. The bass sound is also exactly how I want it to sound as I use a mic rather than
a DI.
Using in-ear monitors has made life so much easier for me on stage as I can get a good consistent stage sound on
every gig.

[redstriper]

[quote name='thedontcarebear' post='544637' date='Jul 19 2009, 12:45 PM']I didn't know where to put this, but anyway, I am sick of never hearing the bass on stage, I bought a kickback combo recently as I thought that would solve the issue, but it doesn't really, most venues I play won't put the bass through the monitors, and if they do, it's not much.

So, I guess it must be my sound, it's a lot worse when the guitarist uses his mesa instead of his engl, must be something to do with the frequencies we use clashing. Anyone got any idea of what to boost or cut? I want a funky but versatile sound, as our set is quite mixed.[/quote]

Sorry if I'm missing something, but why don't you just turn up the volume?
You might need a more powerful amp and/or more cab(s), but you should be able to get the sound you like at the volume you need without compromising the tone.

[pietruszka]

This can be quite tricky and all depends on the size of the venue.

Please bear in mind this is all from my experience and every bass player likes something different. Ill run through what ive done and currently do for different gigs. Also , I play in a funky souly band where the instrumental section is guitar bass and drums.

Small venues; I have the rig running on its own, no DI and no mic-ing. Have the bass louder than you think, only slightly though. I tend to boost the bottom end a little more as it dissapears when you get out to the crowd. Our singer always asks me to turn the bass down to but its just too quite then.
Also, we have the guitarist turn the bass on his amp down. Please dont shout at me, i can explain. In our band Soul Technique, Im the only one providing the bottom end, im in my own frequency range, its the same for the guitarist and so he needs to cut through much better. And because hes in a more general frequency band he doesnt need to be too loud.

Mid- big venues; The bass is DI'd, again the the bass is boosted to help carry the bottom end further into the crowd. I post eq the head and if need be ask the sound man to boost the bottom end on the desk. This doesnt sound muddy either as you can boost the upper mids a little or adjust where you play the strings. My monitering comes from my amp which im right next to. Dont be afraid to tell the sound man how you like your sound, theyre there to get your sound so make sure they do their job.

Once again, I cant stress that this is all from my own experience and its worked extremely well for me and Ive had nothing but compliments about the sound. And remember, your bass, this frequency will not over take vocals so it can be loud which adds weight and holds everything together like glue. Check out a Just Jack gig and youll hear how loud the bass is!!! Same for Elvis Costello, the bass is fantastically loud.

Hope this helps.

Dan

[steve-soar]

Most cabs give little out below 80 hz, boost your 120, 240 a little, cut your 60 and keep everything else flat, or better still keep the amp flat and boost the bass.

Get your cab as near to your ear as you can, when I use my Glock 2x12, I always get it at shoulder height, when I use my 6x10 I don't have any problems.

I like to hear and feel the bass but finding the right on stage sound can take years.

[wateroftyne]

Stacking by cabs on their ends, bringing the top cab closer to ear height, has made a MASSIVE difference to me in this regard....

[chris_b]

Do what you can, but it's still a 2x10! You need another cab.

[Cat Burrito]

I certainly feel raising the height of your speaker will put you in a better place.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='544831' date='Jul 19 2009, 06:12 PM']I certainly feel raising the height of your speaker will put you in a better place.[/quote]

I totally agree...but you have to trust the sound guy is getting you a good off stage sound.

[charic]

Have you tried moving the cab further away from yourself? Also putting it nearer a corner can help boost your sound without annoying guitards.

[thedontcarebear]

I am going to try to get rid of some bass next time to stop the boomyness, I always had quite a middy sound, but will put more in.

There is barely room to fit on the stages, let alone move amps back though, haha.

With it kicked back and pointed at me, I am not really sure why lifting it up would help.

[whynot]

I had a Markbass 2x10 wedge combo up till recently and that was pretty loud and punchy for a 2x10, but for some gigs I still raised it at an angle just to make sure I could hear myself clearly. Also having the kickback at the front facing you will be better than from the rear, providing FOH is covered.

[thedontcarebear]

I'll try all these various things and see what happens and report back!