Pirate Studios -- a warning

[tvickey]

Just need to vent about our recent (really bad) experience with Pirate Studios (a collection of 24/7 non-staffed rehearsal spaces peppered about the UK).

 

My band moved to using Pirate Studios for rehearsals after our usual space was shut down (the landlord there didn't renew the owner's lease).  We used Pirate on a number of occasions in the past, and until yesterday our only other hiccup there was a last-minute booking cancellation 'due to unforeseen circumstances'.

 

We booked a four hour slot at Pirate in Sheffield for Sunday morning, and I arrived about 10-15 minutes in advance of our slot.  Our guitarist was already there when I arrived, and we could both hear the fire alarm blaring when we each pulled up.  No one else appeared to be at the site, and we have no idea how long the fire alarm was already sounding (could have been 5 minutes, could have been hours).  There were no visible signs of a fire (but okay, the property is at least two floors, and is also quite deep).  We popped our heads in the front door, and there was no hint of any smoke.

 

We try to hail them on WhatsApp (per their instructions), but there is just an automated AI bot responding.  Not useful at all.  We tried to phone them and get an recorded canned response that leads us into a labyrinth of options.  Not useful at all.

 

More folks start pulling up for their own rehearsal sessions.  We're all camped outside for more than 30 minutes... I decide to give Pirate a call on the phone again.  I get lucky with selecting the correct sequence of options and manage to reach a human.  I tell them that their Sheffield site might be on fire as the alarm is sounding.  The guy on the phone proceeds to tell me that he can give me the instructions to shut it off.  WAIT A MINUTE!  (1) How does he know there isn't a genuine fire / alarm?  (2) I don't work there.  (3) IF there is a real fire, and I shut the alarm off leading to the death of 1+ people, who is liable?  I tell the guy on the phone that I'm not comfortable doing that and end the call.  He tells me that he'll have security come and investigate.

 

We wait another 30 minutes... the fire alarm has now been sounding for over an hour.  No one from security ever arrives.  Frustrated, I hail the AI chatbot again and tell it that the alarm is sounding at the Sheffield site and that 'your f*-ing studio might be on fire, do you care?'.  Frustrated and stressed, I send a series of additional colorful metaphors to the AI chatbot... but unknown to me, and unannounced, a human being connected to the chat and was less than happy to see my messages.  They reply that I am now banned from Pirate Studios for using abusive language.

 

Someone from another band also hails them on WhatsApp, and decides he is okay with rolling the dice for the liability and follows their instructions to deactivate the alarm.  There was NO investigation into the cause.  There is NO STAFF on site.  NO SECURITY ever showed up.

 

We go into our rehearsal room for our session, now more than an hour late.  We jam for a bit more than an hour and suddenly, unannounced, the power cuts off.   The session that I booked was suddenly cancelled by Pirate due to 'abusive language'.  Nice one.

 

I am genuinely concerned about the type of operation they are running at Pirate Studios.  Please be aware that there is no 24/7 support.  If all goes well, it's a great space.  But if something goes wrong, there won't be anyone coming to help you (ever!).

 

[Burns-bass]

Sounds like an awful situation. Used to work for the fire service and ignoring alarms isn’t ever a good idea!

 

I’d personally send a message to their head office outlining your concerns. If you feel you want to, you can do the same to the local fire service, anonymously if you wish.

 

As a business model I sort of get what Pirate is doing, but I’d the tech fails and there is a problem lives could be at risk.

[Steve Browning]

While your experience was frustrating, maybe your language was unnecessary? Most places have signs stating that abuse of staff won't be tolerated. 

[tvickey]

17 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

While your experience was frustrating, maybe your language was unnecessary? Most places have signs stating that abuse of staff won't be tolerated. 

 

Of course you are 100% correct, Steve.  I was initially told that I was talking to an AI chatbot.

[Beedster]

25 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

While your experience was frustrating, maybe your language was unnecessary? Most places have signs stating that abuse of staff won't be tolerated. 

Sadly yes, never give a jobsworth the opportunity or excuse to be a jobsworth, they relish it. Sign of the times 😕

[Dan Dare]

3 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

I’d personally send a message to their head office outlining your concerns. If you feel you want to, you can do the same to the local fire service, anonymously if you wish.

 

 

Never mind their head office. Whoever the OP spoke with was obviously following their policy, so they won't be bothered. Inform the local authority and the fire service and don't do so anonymously. Give dates, times, etc. I'm sure they would be very interested to learn the company asked a customer to disable a fire alarm. If they've already banned you, you have nothing to lose.

 

Forget the hand-wringing over a bit of swearing. That's obviously their way of trying to justify themselves.

[dave_bass5]

The Pirate studios we use have CCTV in every room, as well as the kitchen/Toilet areas. So we assume things are monitored. 

[chrisba]

48 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

Forget the hand-wringing over a bit of swearing. That's obviously their way of trying to justify themselves.

I disagree. Most companies, quite rightly,  have policies in place with regards to customers using agressive or abusive language towards their staff. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation ( and I agree that Pirate have reacted badly here and need to fix some stuff ) , I think a ban is entirely appropriate.

A carefully worded and sincere apology might rescue the situation, and allow you to have a sensible dialogue with them about the issues that you faced, and how you move forward.

I've used a Pirate facility once, was impressed by the setup, but had no need to interact with them beyond the booking.

[tvickey]

31 minutes ago, chrisba said:

 I think a ban is entirely appropriate.
 

 

Okay, yes, I likely deserve to be banned for life.  I'm certainly not perfect.  I might be a bad person, or even on the spectrum.  My dad regularly yelled at me when I was a small boy and so deep down maybe that has something to do with it. 

 

BUT my interactions were with an AI chatbot, and to be totally honest with you I suspect the chatbot initiated the ban automatically based on keywords.  I probably shouldn't be abusive to AI chatbots, but they have no feelings or emotions.  A human only came on to the chat after the ban was announced, and at that point they clearly identified themselves.

 

I did sincerely apologize to the human, and I have now also formally reported  Pirate Studios for disregarding the fire alarm and for providing a customer with details for switching it off.  The way that I see it, I am completely obliged to report this... they could ultimately kill people.

 

 

[TimR]

Somewhat of an overreaction.

 

Resetting the fire alarm won't result in any liability. It shouldn't allow you to reset it if a break glass or smoke head has been activated. 

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

The Pirate studios we use have CCTV in every room, as well as the kitchen/Toilet areas. So we assume things are monitored. 

 

 

Indeed, and the few times I needed anything from them they responded quickly. I hope the OP's is not a sign of changes to come.

[kwmlondon]

23 minutes ago, tvickey said:

 

Okay, yes, I likely deserve to be banned for life.  I'm certainly not perfect.  I might be a bad person, or even on the spectrum.  My dad regularly yelled at me when I was a small boy and so deep down maybe that has something to do with it. 

 

BUT my interactions were with an AI chatbot, and to be totally honest with you I suspect the chatbot initiated the ban automatically based on keywords.  I probably shouldn't be abusive to AI chatbots, but they have no feelings or emotions.  A human only came on to the chat after the ban was announced, and at that point they clearly identified themselves.

 

I did sincerely apologize to the human, and I have now also formally reported  Pirate Studios for disregarding the fire alarm and for providing a customer with details for switching it off.  The way that I see it, I am completely obliged to report this... they could ultimately kill people.

 

 

I'm always polite to AI because I'm worried that one day they'll be in charge and may remember who said "thank you Alexa" and "please Siri can you set an alarm. etc"

 

Seriosly though it's really not great for Pirate to do this and they need to work on the balance between keeping the business lean and using as few paid staff as possible, and ensuring that the users and staff are safe at all times. I use a few of their studios around London and I've had mixed experiences, though on the whole they've been good. If there's a problem e.g. kit not working or air con not functional then it can be really hard to resolve. On the other hand they've been quick to sort things like dodgy xlr cables or broken drum stool by giving me the code to the storeroom. It can be infuriating trying to sort a problem by whasapp text though.

 

The updside is that they've got a lot of locations with different levels of practise space and it's really easy to book and unbook and... it's cheap. I've also had some piss-poor experiencs in other rehearsal spaces - recently the guy who ran one didn't make eye contact with our drummer or speak to her, he'd only talk to me and the other guy there. She found that creepy as f*cK and I agree.

[tvickey]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

The Pirate studios we use have CCTV in every room, as well as the kitchen/Toilet areas. So we assume things are monitored. 

 

Yes, there are a lot of cameras...   sure, if there was a raging fire it would be obvious, but I guess if cameras made good smoke detectors, we would have cameras instead of smoke detectors?

[tvickey]

10 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

I've also had some piss-poor experiencs in other rehearsal spaces - recently the guy who ran one didn't make eye contact with our drummer or speak to her, he'd only talk to me and the other guy there. She found that creepy as f*cK and I agree.

 

Was he possibly just AI wrapped up in an android body? 🤔  (sorry for your experience)

[Lozz196]

5 hours ago, tvickey said:

Just need to vent about our recent (really bad) experience with Pirate Studios (a collection of 24/7 non-staffed rehearsal spaces peppered about the UK).

 

My band moved to using Pirate Studios for rehearsals after our usual space was shut down (the landlord there didn't renew the owner's lease).  We used Pirate on a number of occasions in the past, and until yesterday our only other hiccup there was a last-minute booking cancellation 'due to unforeseen circumstances'.

 

We booked a four hour slot at Pirate in Sheffield for Sunday morning, and I arrived about 10-15 minutes in advance of our slot.  Our guitarist was already there when I arrived, and we could both hear the fire alarm blaring when we each pulled up.  No one else appeared to be at the site, and we have no idea how long the fire alarm was already sounding (could have been 5 minutes, could have been hours).  There were no visible signs of a fire (but okay, the property is at least two floors, and is also quite deep).  We popped our heads in the front door, and there was no hint of any smoke.

 

We try to hail them on WhatsApp (per their instructions), but there is just an automated AI bot responding.  Not useful at all.  We tried to phone them and get an recorded canned response that leads us into a labyrinth of options.  Not useful at all.

 

More folks start pulling up for their own rehearsal sessions.  We're all camped outside for more than 30 minutes... I decide to give Pirate a call on the phone again.  I get lucky with selecting the correct sequence of options and manage to reach a human.  I tell them that their Sheffield site might be on fire as the alarm is sounding.  The guy on the phone proceeds to tell me that he can give me the instructions to shut it off.  WAIT A MINUTE!  (1) How does he know there isn't a genuine fire / alarm?  (2) I don't work there.  (3) IF there is a real fire, and I shut the alarm off leading to the death of 1+ people, who is liable?  I tell the guy on the phone that I'm not comfortable doing that and end the call.  He tells me that he'll have security come and investigate.

 

We wait another 30 minutes... the fire alarm has now been sounding for over an hour.  No one from security ever arrives.  

 

 

Coming from an H&S/Fire Safety related role the above doesn`t look good. Someone who is not an employee of the business, therefore with no authority to do so, asked to shut off a fire alarm, that person not having any knowledge of if there even is a fire or not, no!

 

Anywhere that runs like that would be on my not-return-list, and given my albeit limited experience of fires I`d be considering contacting the fire authorities, not out of spite for being banned, but from not wanting others to be injured or worse should there be an actual fire. 

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, tvickey said:

 

Yes, there are a lot of cameras...   sure, if there was a raging fire it would be obvious, but I guess if cameras made good smoke detectors, we would have cameras instead of smoke detectors?

My point being, they could probably see if there was a fire or smoke. They could probably see in to every room, which is more than you could. 

[Magister Ludi]

Why did no one phone 999 ?

 

Brigade would not have happy for that call-out!

[tvickey]

1 minute ago, Magister Ludi said:

Why did no one phone 999 ?

 

Brigade would not have happy for that call-out!

 

In retrospect, we absolutely should have called 999.  Had we seen smoke or flames at the time, we certainly would have.  

[Dood]

Did you pay by credit card for the (dis)pleasure? I'd have requested a charge back for failing to deliver the service you were paying for, language or otherwise. 

[tvickey]

7 minutes ago, Dood said:

Did you pay by credit card for the (dis)pleasure? I'd have requested a charge back for failing to deliver the service you were paying for, language or otherwise. 

Debit card... from the group band account.  I'll have to check with SumUp if we are able to dispute the charge.

[Beedster]

Look behind many tragedies and even major disasters and there’s an alarm that has been routinely ignored or switched off. Building fires are funny things, you often don’t see them until it’s too late, as a close neighbour found out two years ago. CCTV is not a fire alarm, that’s why we have fire alarms

[kwmlondon]

43 minutes ago, Dood said:

Did you pay by credit card for the (dis)pleasure? I'd have requested a charge back for failing to deliver the service you were paying for, language or otherwise. 

To be fair to Pirate, they are always quick to refund. If the room's not up to standard e.g. one of the channels on the mixer isn't working they'll give you 20% off and if something happens that means that you can't use the room - no power for example - and they can't shift you to another one you get a refund right away. What's frustrating is that it can take a lot of effort to organise a rehearsal and a few of you have traipsed to the venue so the money isn't the issue. But then, that's why they are cheaper than places that have someone on reception and a tech setting up the rooms and charge extra for backline. As much as I love DMC in Deptford they're often booked out and they are pricier than Pirate. 

[tvickey]

SumUp has a transaction dispute form.  This has now been completed and submitted, together with all supporting documentation.

[cybertect]

3 hours ago, chrisba said:

I disagree. Most companies, quite rightly,  have policies in place with regards to customers using agressive or abusive language towards their staff. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation ( and I agree that Pirate have reacted badly here and need to fix some stuff ) , I think a ban is entirely appropriate.

If Pirate treat their AI chatbots as members of staff by paying national minimum wage, NI & tax together with sick leave, holiday leave and other employment rights, then it’s perhaps fair to apply policies against using the public using inappropriate language toward them.

 

Until that day, it’s an overreaction on Pirate’s part.

[BigRedX]

I'd definitely dob them in to the fire service and the environmental health department of the relevant local authority.