What's bigger than an Elf?

[Jackroadkill]

Hi all, I had a thought (steady!) at rehearsal tonight and now I can't stop thinking it.  I usually play through a David Eden amp and I really like it, but apropos of nothing, I've used my Elf the last two weeks.  Now, at present there's just me and my mate on guitar, so volume's not been an issue when using my 4ohm 2x15 cab, but I think adding a drummer, possibly another guitarist and at least two vocals might be a bit more than the wee Elf can cope with in the volume stakes.

 

So, here's the thing - do/did Trace make anything that sounds similar (because I love the toanz) but that will kick out about 500w into that same 4ohm cab?  At the moment it looks like the Elf and the TE-1200 are their only offerings.

 

Any thoughts etc gratefully received.

 

Cheers,

 

JRK

[Downunderwonder]

I wouldn't worry about it until you are getting gigs. That gives you plenty of opportunity to see if the 200w is enough.

 

20W is twice as loud as 2W

200W is twice as loud as 20W

2000W blows up your cab way trying to be half as loud again.

 

500W is just a bump up.

[thodrik]

You could try the new TE-1200, but it is very expensive. You could also try some of the older Trace Elliot gear which can be found for relatively cheap second hand, but they are very heavy. 

 

However, 200 watts at 4 ohms should be plenty loud enough, if it isn't ask the guitarist to turn down.

[Leonard Smalls]

5 minutes ago, thodrik said:

However, 200 watts at 4 ohms should be plenty loud enough

Our other bassman uses an Elf, and we have no trouble at all hearing him over drums, vox, orange guitar stack and my 1500W bridged Crown doofer...

[thodrik]

4 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Our other bassman uses an Elf, and we have no trouble at all hearing him over drums, vox, orange guitar stack and my 1500W bridged Crown doofer...

I played downtuned guitar through an Orange Micro Terror connected to a Mesa 6x10 bass cabinet. It didn't sound good, but it was definitely loud.

[Ed_S]

I have to wonder whether there was actually something wrong with the Elf that I had and moved on. Nice tone, but it couldn't produce anywhere near enough volume to be useful through a pair of cabs which are more than capable with amps of only slightly higher quoted power.

 

I think in the OP situation, if the Elf proved to be lacking I'd be tempted to try the Transit B preamp pedal into a power amp. I like the Crown XLS xx02 series, myself.

[neepheid]

Sorry for the lack of TE relevance, but I would like to add weight to the argument that watts is just a number beyond a certain point.

 

I use a modular system (Markbass Mini CMD121P IV + Markbass New York 121 cab) and I have a backup head - a TC Electronic BH250.  All of the following combinations (in order of wattage) are loud enough to be heard fine with a full band IMO.

 

Markbass full rig - 500W into 4ohm 2x1x12"

Markbass combo on its own - 250W into a single 8 ohm 12"

TC Electronic BH250 into a crappy rehearsal room Behringer 4ohm 4x10" (250W)

TC Electronic BH250 into 4ohm 2x1x12" (250W)

TC Electronic BH250 into single 8 ohm 12" cab (so providing a nebulous amount of watts less than 250W - TC shy with this info but I guess it will be less than 200)

 

At its most powerful (500W), I don't need the master up on my rig more than about a third in general when playing in the same room as a drummer, guitarist and singer or a drummer, singer, backup singer, keys, sax, trombone.  Even with the lesser powered stuff, it doesn't need to be cranked to be heard.

 

TL:DR - try the Elf with your 2x15" in the full band setting (and play with EQ) before you even think about buying anything.

Edited July 2 by neepheid

[Merton]

I’ll echo others - I’ve used an Elf in a loud rock band, no PA support, and it’s been a revelation. To the point I considered just having two, one as back up to the other, and nothing else.

If the TE 1200 is too big and you do decide the Elf is too small, what about the Warwick Gnome 600?

 

 

Edited July 2 by Merton
Smelling pistakes

[Jackroadkill]

Thanks for your comments, everyone.

 

The Eden rig I normally use is a WTX 500 and it has all the punch I need.  I'm a reasonably seasoned hand in terms of gigging etc and know that it's not a numbers game.  I just quite like the tone of the Elf but it hasn't got the headroom of the Eden so I was wondering if there's a Trace rig that sounds like the Elf but has a bit more left in the tank, so to speak, when in a band context.

 

Cheers, 

JRK

[David Morison]

If you really like the tone of the Elf & don't mind carrying both and you weren't needing the Elf's DI for normal FOH feed, you could run the Elf's DI into the fx return of the Eden to take advantage of the latter's increased headroom. Would need an XLR to TS adaptor cable, and it's a bit clunky, but might get you the best of both worlds. 

[Happy Jack]

I found that asking Google "What's bigger than an Elf?" was really, really unhelpful.

 

[BassAdder60]

What about one of the Peavey amp heads ? Minimax I think it was called ? 
 

I used my ELF into a 2x12 4ohm cab with a loud rock band and it kept up nicely 

[Mickeyboro]

20 minutes ago, BassAdder60 said:

What about one of the Peavey amp heads ? Minimax I think it was called ? 
 

I used my ELF into a 2x12 4ohm cab with a loud rock band and it kept up nicely 

I tried the Minimax and it seemed like overkill after the Elf. Too complicated for the likes of me…

[tauzero]

On 03/07/2025 at 19:49, Happy Jack said:

I found that asking Google "What's bigger than an Elf?" was really, really unhelpful.

 

 

You didn't also happen to ask if you could fit a dead elf into the boot of an MX-5 did you? Asking for a friend.

[Supernaut]

A dwarf? 

[prowla]

A bigger cab?

[Jackroadkill]

20 minutes ago, prowla said:

A bigger cab?

 

I'm running a 4ohm 2x15, so I think that should be sufficient!

[prowla]

14 minutes ago, Jackroadkill said:

 

I'm running a 4ohm 2x15, so I think that should be sufficient!

Nah - you need a second one! 🙂

[tauzero]

Rewire the 4 ohm 2x15 so it's two 8 ohm 1x15s sharing a box, get a second Elf, and split the signal between them.

[Chienmortbb]

I must admit that going a range one 200 watt amp and one 1200 watt amp suggest a hole in the range at 500–600 watts. 

[Jackroadkill]

2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

I must admit that going a range one 200 watt amp and one 1200 watt amp suggest a hole in the range at 500–600 watts. 

 

Exactly...  Doesn't make sense to me.

[Downunderwonder]

500w is only going to get you a 3dB boost if your cab can take it all without cooking or breaking.

 

1200w means you can plug into a big high power handler like a BF Twin and give it some berries, outdoors on a big stage.

 

Elf sales don't hurt 1200 sales and vice versa. A 500w version would not be significantly cheaper than the 1200. Hence no 500w version.

[Chienmortbb]

If you look at  ICEPower range, the difference between the  the A

125ASX2 and the 1200AS1 in volume is about $100. In bridge mode the 125ASX2 will do 500 watts into 4ohms and is used in a number of “500 watt” amplifiers. 

The 1200AS1 will need more thermal management than the 125ASX2, more than outweighing the cost implications of the bridging circuits required by the 125ASX2. 
 

Thr ASX and AS1 range of modules are used in many bass amplifiers. 

 

The 1200 watt unit will dive a loudspeaker harder than a 500 watt but will undoubtedly increase power compression in the loudspeaker, limiting the acoustic output by 1-2 dB, hence you could argue that the 1200 watt unit is the one that is the oddity in the range.

 

Looking at the TE1200, the cost is £1000, way more expensive than the 500-700 watt models from Ashdown, Aguilar and even Harley Benton, all of which use ICEPower modules . 

I have been told, by people I trust, that the TE1200 is a superb amp so why not an amp filling the gap between 200 and 1200 watts?  Clearly the TE branded Peavey ams, Elf and TE1200 have fairy dust inside so why not sprinkle some on a 500-700 watt amp? 

Although a qualified electronics engineer. I also spent a decade or more in a Marketing role. We had a single model in one category and the  Factory developed three models to replace it to suit three different market segments. The Sakes Manager was convinced our sales would remain static. In the end our sales went up 250%. The reason? People could choose from within our range without having to search other manufacturers. So it makes sense for TE/Peavey.  

So whether a 500 watt TE500(Orca) is needed by bassists is in some way irrelevant, the truth is that there is a market segment for a TE amp in the 500-700 area at about £700-800.

[Raslee]

I use the Elf into a Markbass Pure 4 ohm 2x10”. It’s a superlight and loud rig.  One of the bands I play with is a loud ska punky band and I’m yet to go past half way on my volume. 

Edited yesterday at 18:36 by Raslee

[BassmanPaul]

If I may point out that the physical position of the volume control has no bearing on the power the amp id putting out. It may well be producing its maximum output at 2 on the scale. All depends on how hot the input signal is.