PMT - physical shops going downhill?

[Mudpup]

I popped into the Cambridge PMT a couple of weeks ago. You go in the front door and walk right past the counter to go deeper into the shop. There were 3 staff sitting behind the counter having a chat and eating lunch - no one even looked at me let alone welcomed me. I walked to the back of the shop, hung around the bass section looking at the couple of 5 strings they had locked up on the wall for about 5 minutes, did a couple of laps of the shop in case anyone could be bottomed to ask me if i needed anything or wanted to try a bass and walked straight back out again. I was still less interesting to them than a baked potato. Thats £500 of my money they're not getting then....  

Edited November 17, 2024 by Mudpup

[binky_bass]

9 hours ago, Mudpup said:

I popped into the Cambridge PMT a couple of weeks ago. You go in the front door and walk right past the counter to go deeper into the shop. There were 3 staff sitting behind the counter having a chat and eating lunch - no one even looked at me let alone welcomed me. I walked to the back of the shop, hung around the bass section looking at the couple of 5 strings they had locked up on the wall for about 5 minutes, did a couple of laps of the shop in case anyone could be bottomed to ask me if i needed anything or wanted to try a bass and walked straight back out again. I was still less interesting to them than a baked potato. Thats £500 of my money they're not getting then....  

You can't compare yourself against a baked potato, you're just setting yourself up for a fail... everyone knows that when it comes down to 'baked 'potato vs Mudpup', baked potato wins hands down! 😄

Edited November 18, 2024 by binky_bass

[Mudpup]

13 hours ago, binky_bass said:

You can't compare yourself against a baked potato, you're just setting yourself up for a fail... everyone knows that when it comes down to 'baked 'potato vs Mudpup', baked potato wins hands down! 😄

True dat.....they did look tasty. And I was only trying to spend some cash with them 😂

[EssexBuccaneer]

Not the same, but I have another niche hobby alongside bass - I fiddle around with RC cars and trucks. Yesterday I went to a radio control shop in Rochester. I was stunned at how little the staff cared, also the poor stock and general mess in the shop.

 

You’d think in an hobby with such passionate, geeky fans, the staff would have a similar level of enthusiasm and actually *want* to engage, chat and help their customers. Sadly it seems the opposite all too often.

Edited November 19, 2024 by EssexBuccaneer

[BassApprentice]

I worked in retail recently, specifically watches, so understand the niche/geeky clientele it can bring. I learnt that you have to appreciate those who are truly interested and will invariably just be in to browse and kill time, but at least have a quick chat with them.

 

Yes, it takes you away from other tasks. Yes, it might not be a sale, but at some point it will be if you do the right thing. Timewasters can be annoying, and I can see that being a big problem in guitar shops, but customers keep the doors open. 

[sammybee]

3 hours ago, BassApprentice said:

I worked in retail recently, specifically watches, so understand the niche/geeky clientele it can bring. I learnt that you have to appreciate those who are truly interested and will invariably just be in to browse and kill time, but at least have a quick chat with them.

 

Yes, it takes you away from other tasks. Yes, it might not be a sale, but at some point it will be if you do the right thing. Timewasters can be annoying, and I can see that being a big problem in guitar shops, but customers keep the doors open. 

Every time I've been anywhere near a music shop, I have been at least 80% close to pulling the trigger on something - big or small. As geeky or as niche as I may be I'd hate to be thought of as a time waster

 

[BassApprentice]

17 minutes ago, sammybee said:

Every time I've been anywhere near a music shop, I have been at least 80% close to pulling the trigger on something - big or small. As geeky or as niche as I may be I'd hate to be thought of as a time waster

 

Apologies if that came off as a negative, but it is true. I know as I'm one of them! 😂 I'll go in for a nosey, on a lunch break or the like and have zero intention of buying, but I'd still expect the people in the shop to perk up and have a wee chat.

[MacDaddy]

Rather than start a new thread, I'll plonk this here.

A vocalist in one of my bands has a £25  gift voucher for Rose Morris. She popped in before a gig to buy an XLR lead, only to find a whole raft of terms and conditions that make it difficult to use the voucher.

It can only be used online (so add p&p). Rose Morris don't seem to care about purchases or footfall in their physical stores.

The full amount of the voucher has to be used in one go.

The £8 lead she wanted in the shop is not available online. There is online a lead which is half the length for £16.

This all means no return visit to the physical store, no additional purchases, and negative feedback.

 

[tauzero]

22 hours ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

Not the same, but I have another niche hobby alongside bass - I fiddle around with RC cars and trucks. Yesterday I went to a radio control shop in Rochester. I was stunned at how little the staff cared, also the poor stock and general mess in the shop.

 

You’d think in an hobby with such passionate, geeky fans, the staff would have a similar level of enthusiasm and actually *want* to engage, chat and help their customers. Sadly it seems the opposite all too often.

 

As Maplin moved away from being an electronics shop and became an electronic toys and games shop, so the expertise of the staff declined.

[Kiwi]

Industry stats show guitar sales in the US boomed during COVID but crashed in the UK.  They've recovered slightly but not enough to arrest the general downward slide of sales.  Some are suggesting it's the lack of interest from Gen Z.  Some are saying it's the sheer mass of used instruments that are available...but at what price point?  I'm aware of a lot of hoarding going on...Status...Wal...limited editions of other brands as well and some brands have cashed in on that notion of exclusivity. So I'm curious to know how well those brands who pushed up their prices significantly a couple of years ago are doing these days (Ernie Ball and Warwick...looking at you).   Over the last 5-7 years lump sum pension payouts have almost certainly helped to drive hoarding but the cost of living crisis has now soaked up a lot of that liquidity.  

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, tauzero said:

As Maplin moved away from being an electronics shop and became an electronic toys and games shop, so the expertise of the staff declined.

 

If you mean after about 1990, then yes, after that a large amount of them were pretty much the same as all staff!

[cetera]

20 hours ago, Kiwi said:

Industry stats show guitar sales in the US boomed during COVID but crashed in the UK.  They've recovered slightly but not enough to arrest the general downward slide of sales.  Some are suggesting it's the lack of interest from Gen Z.  Some are saying it's the sheer mass of used instruments that are available...but at what price point?  I'm aware of a lot of hoarding going on...Status...Wal...limited editions of other brands as well and some brands have cashed in on that notion of exclusivity. So I'm curious to know how well those brands who pushed up their prices significantly a couple of years ago are doing these days (Ernie Ball and Warwick...looking at you).   Over the last 5-7 years lump sum pension payouts have almost certainly helped to drive hoarding but the cost of living crisis has now soaked up a lot of that liquidity.  

Lack of music lessons in school, minimal funding for music (and the arts in general) in education (always the 1st to be cut when savings need to be made) and general undervaluing of music in society. 
 

[NigeJ]

Just heard the whole chain has gone bump......

[AndyTravis]

Just now, NigeJ said:

Just heard the whole chain has gone bump......

Yeah - heard the same.

 

Reps who were instructed to fetch gear out were told to bugger off by administration team…

 

 

[Linus27]

PMT, Bax and Gak all gone. These are not good times.

[Bass Direct]

Sad to hear this for all of the staff who worked at the stores

[Woodinblack]

35 minutes ago, NigeJ said:

Just heard the whole chain has gone bump......

 

That doesn't sound good - they still seem to be taking orders on the web?

[fretmeister]

This was posted on another forum but didn't say which store.

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Linus27 said:

PMT, Bax and Gak all gone. These are not good times.

 

Bax are back

[Minininjarob]

I was at PMT Leeds on Monday and apart from a lack of bass strings to choose from everything looked normal in fact they had been having a move round of the store. Very odd. 

[Big Bass Man]

I might pop down to PMT Leeds over the weekend. Maybe it’s just certain stores that are affected? It’s super sad. 

[EssexBuccaneer]

32 minutes ago, Big Bass Man said:

I might pop down to PMT Leeds over the weekend. Maybe it’s just certain stores that are affected? It’s super sad. 

According to reports, all 11 stores and online have gone. Stock has been sold to Gear4Music 

[SumOne]

21 hours ago, Linus27 said:

PMT, Bax and Gak all gone. These are not good times.

 

Bax seems to be back.

 

For places like GAK and PMT with physical shops mostly making their £ selling mass produced new instruments then they can't compete on price with big online only shops for price, so what's their selling point? Even if people want to test the instruments, they can just do that in the shop then buy online elsewhere. And even that isn't really necessary as all online sales can be returned for refund within a month. I don't think they've adapted with the times with internet, return laws, big automated warehouses, cheap delivery. 

 

We've seen it with shops like Our Price and HMV going under while shops like Rough Trade have expanded. They do in shop signings/gigs, have cafes, have fairly obscure vinyl and merchandise that can be tricky to get online.

 

Personally I'd try and do similar with an instrument shop - don't compete directly with online shops for shifting mass produced boxes, put some effort in to offer alternatives: In shop demos, talks from musicians and manufacturers, small gigs, product launches, lessons, good part exchange deals, second hand, servicing, in shop experts happy to help,  equipment rental, practice spaces, cafe/bar, boutique brands and custom stuff. Incentives like 'buy here and get a free lesson on how to use your new keyboard/set-up your bass/pair your mixer with your Laptop' etc. really make it a 'go to' hub for musicians. I think places like PMT have dropped the ball on this.

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 12:50 by SumOne

[Bass Direct]

58 minutes ago, SumOne said:

 

Bax seems to be back.

 

For places like GAK and PMT with physical shops mostly making their £ selling mass produced new instruments then they can't compete on price with big online only shops for price, so what's their selling point? Even if people want to test the instruments, they can just do that in the shop then buy online elsewhere. And even that isn't really necessary as all online sales can be returned for refund within a month. I don't think they've adapted with the times with internet, return laws, big automated warehouses, cheap delivery. 

 

We've seen it with shops like Our Price and HMV going under while shops like Rough Trade have expanded. They do in shop signings/gigs, have cafes, have fairly obscure vinyl and merchandise that can be tricky to get online.

 

Personally I'd try and do similar with an instrument shop - don't compete directly with online shops for shifting mass produced boxes, put some effort in to offer alternatives: In shop demos, talks from musicians and manufacturers, small gigs, product launches, lessons, good part exchange deals, second hand, servicing, in shop experts happy to help,  equipment rental, practice spaces, cafe/bar, boutique brands and custom stuff. Incentives like 'buy here and get a free lesson on how to use your new keyboard/set-up your bass/pair your mixer with your Laptop' etc. really make it a 'go to' hub for musicians. I think places like PMT have dropped the ball on this.

 

 

 

 

Thats the direction we are headed, or at least slowly trying to get there

[80Hz]

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

In shop demos, talks from musicians and manufacturers, small gigs, product launches, lessons, good part exchange deals, second hand, servicing, in shop experts happy to help,  equipment rental, practice spaces, cafe/bar, boutique brands and custom stuff. Incentives like 'buy here and get a free lesson on how to use your new keyboard/set-up your bass/pair your mixer with your Laptop' etc. really make it a 'go to' hub for musicians.

All good inspiration, the creating (recreating?) community aspect especially. I say “recreating” as lots of shops used to do much of what you’re saying.

 

But I think any good offline operation has to have a seamless online presence too. The online customer has to feel that they’re somehow part of that in person community experience. This is something Andertons have done particularly well imo, not to say there couldn’t be other ways of approaching it.