Downsizing, juxtapositioned with value of big old gear.

[NancyJohnson]

I've lost count of the different amp/cab set-ups I've gone through since I started playing, arguably I'm the happiest I've been set the outset of this 30+ year sojourn, just running a Darkglass AO900 and a pair of Darkglass 1x12s.

 

Last week I was at a rehearsal studio, the place hires out gear to musicians who turn up without amps, so the place is rammed with backline of all shapes and sizes.  The owner casually says to me that, '...everything along that wall is for sale,' at which point my eyes start moving very quickly as I peruse the treasure trove of stock.  Lots of Orange stuff, lots of bits and pieces I don't know anything about, Fender combos, Soundcity and Ampeg cabinets, Marshalls.  I casually enquire the price of an American made Ampeg/SVT 8x10, to be told he'd probably take £400.00.  I mean, it was a bit road worn, but £400.00??

 

It did get me thinking about my 'little' set up.  I guess my outlay was over £2K for this.  Easy to cart about, loud when it needs to be and sounds thunderous.  I genuinely felt sorry for the old fridge and the other stuff in there just gathering dust when, if you went back 25 years, running an Ampeg 8x10 would leave people a bit slack-jawed. 

[BigRedX]

Sign of the times as they say. See all the other threads about amp-less stages and FRFR rigs...

 

I'm glad I was able to sell all my big amps and cabs 6 years ago when they were still worth something.

[Machines]

I wouldn't take that SVT810 for free. Absolute liability having that slipped disc maker in your possession. 

 

Heavy cabs seem to end up on clearance a lot, any manfacturer that isn't putting most of their R&D into it is going to struggle in my opinion.

 

 

[Ed_S]

I couldn't comfortably move or house an 8x10, so I'd sadly have to judge its value to me as zero.. or possibly less given that I'd expect to have to pay somebody to take it away even if you gave it to me for free. I recently sold what used to be considered a very lightweight 4x10 (MB 104HR) for about £500 less than I paid for it new, 10ish years ago - it was clear that I wasn't going to get any more for it so my choices were either keep it or just stand to the loss.

 

Having given the recent IEM/FRFR/modelling threads some genuine thought I don't really see myself moving away from my downsized amps and cabs any time soon, but anything that I can't comfortably pick up with one hand has already gone and won't be returning.

[chris_b]

I love progress.

 

It took 2 of us to carry my first 4x12 cab, which was only rated at 50 watts. Now I can carry each 600 watt 112 with one finger.

 

So far, in my bass world, every improvement has been a step in the right direction. I don't miss any gear from the "good old days".

[thodrik]

Yepp, big heavy gear that used to cost a fortune new can be a bargain now owing to (a) how bloody impractical they are to move and (b) how little demand there is for them since portable modern gear came on the market.

 

Case in point: I got a mint Mesa Powerhouse 6x10 for £400. A complete bargain because they were about £1600+ new or a waste of money given how it is overkill for most gigs (okay, all gigs) and is so damn heavy? Kinda both. 
 

I will never sell it, which is a good thing since I probably wouldn’t be able to if I wanted to. However as a cheap bucket list ‘I’ve always wanted that’ purchase I don’t regret it. I have a soundproof garage so I do use it multiple times a week, definitely wouldn’t have bought it if I was still living in an upstairs flat!

 

 

 

[casapete]

I think Trace Elliot stuff typifies the issue. Everyone knows that it’s great, but now sadly simply

isn't feasible for many people due to it’s weight and bulk and therefore can be had for a song.

Was used by everyone back in the day, from pub bands to stadium gigs, but nowadays only

the die hard TE fans still using it. Will probably outlive them too.

[JPJ]

Like the OP, I've owned all manner of rigs (predominantly SWR based) that were so heavy that they came with their own gravitational fields (see the SWR SM1500 I have for sale on here). Probably the best cab I played through was a Goliath Snr 6x10, an impractical beast that I could only just about manage to lift into/out of the van. Like chris_b, I used to own a Hiwatt 4x12 that was a two-strong men lift and only rated at 200w. I now gig with a 400w 1x15 neo equipped Ashdown combo and a matching neo equipped 1x15 extension, both of which are a one-hand lift. I'm sure that with at least one of my bands we will be ampless within a year. Progress and age maybe go hand-in-hand 😉

[BassmanPaul]

On 23/05/2023 at 07:30, NancyJohnson said:

I've lost count of the different amp/cab set-ups I've gone through since I started playing, arguably I'm the happiest I've been set the outset of this 30+ year sojourn, just running a Darkglass AO900 and a pair of Darkglass 1x12s.

 

Last week I was at a rehearsal studio, the place hires out gear to musicians who turn up without amps, so the place is rammed with backline of all shapes and sizes.  The owner casually says to me that, '...everything along that wall is for sale,' at which point my eyes start moving very quickly as I peruse the treasure trove of stock.  Lots of Orange stuff, lots of bits and pieces I don't know anything about, Fender combos, Soundcity and Ampeg cabinets, Marshalls.  I casually enquire the price of an American made Ampeg/SVT 8x10, to be told he'd probably take £400.00.  I mean, it was a bit road worn, but £400.00??

 

It did get me thinking about my 'little' set up.  I guess my outlay was over £2K for this.  Easy to cart about, loud when it needs to be and sounds thunderous.  I genuinely felt sorry for the old fridge and the other stuff in there just gathering dust when, if you went back 25 years, running an Ampeg 8x10 would leave people a bit slack-jawed. 

 

Back in the late Seventies I used an H&H scoop twin 15. That was supplanted by a 'stereo' system with a 15" JBL K145 and two TL style cabinets housing JBL K120 12" drivers on each side of the stage. The amp was a SS 200W per side amp that I had designed for the purpose. The pre-amp was my build too. The whole shebang weighed a ton but sounded wonderful.  The best part was the amplifier worked first time I powered it on. YEAH!  I still own the power amp and it still works. 

 

Today I use a 2000W capable Class D power amp pushed by a simple tube pre-amp I again designed for the job. That drives either two or four Acme B2 2x10 three way boxes and I've never been happier.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by BassmanPaul

[JoeEvans]

I'm very happy with my current TE Elf, which does the job just fine for me. But unless nostalgia is distorting my judgement, I still don't think anything sounds as good as my old TE 4x10 combo, despite the inconvenience of lugging it around. That particular model was so heavy that you had to make appreciably more effort to walk away from it than towards it.

[NancyJohnson]

The whole ridiculousness of chasing tone and the amount of money I've thrown at it.  Sigh.

 

Worst case was this frankly ridiculous tri-amp set up I ran about 30 years ago.  TE preamp, TE stereo Poweramp, TE mono Poweramp, two SWR Goliath cabs (1x15/4x10) and a TE bright box.  It sounded ok, but didn't deliver anything like the sound I was looking for.  It wasn't until I got a BassPOD that things started getting interesting.  Then a BDDI.

 

The beauty now is that I get what I need from a set up barely bigger than a cabin bag.

 

[Lozz196]

My best ever tone just with bass & amp, no pedals was through three different rigs. in order of when I had them:

 

Hartke HA4000 with XL210 & 115 cabs

Marshall DBS7400 with VBC412 cab 

Ashdown ABM600 with ABM210 & 410 cabs

 

I can always get my sound or near enough from pretty much any bass amp set-up but those three rigs really excelled, the feel and depth of sound was better than any other set-ups I`ve had. For me I just like the depth that multiple speakers all going at once deliver, they don`t have to be daftly loud, just to match the kit but there`s a bigness and solidity to a lot of speakers all going at once that I love.

 

So having said that I will now be gigging with a Sansamp.

[Dan Dare]

On 23/05/2023 at 12:30, NancyJohnson said:

I genuinely felt sorry for the old fridge and the other stuff in there just gathering dust

 

I feel the same when I go to the breakers yard to get bits for my car. A lot of perfectly decent old vehicles that have probably been scrapped for something quite trivial because parts aren't available or are stupidly expensive. It's just the way the world is.

[milford59]

On 24/05/2023 at 09:19, casapete said:

I think Trace Elliot stuff typifies the issue. Everyone knows that it’s great, but now sadly simply

isn't feasible for many people due to it’s weight and bulk and therefore can be had for a song.

Was used by everyone back in the day, from pub bands to stadium gigs, but nowadays only

the die hard TE fans still using it. Will probably outlive them too.

I have a TE 7215 SMC which I bought new from Flying Pig Music about 20 years ago and it is absolutely mint - but like many people I am no spring chicken now and it’s heavy - as we all know… and I would struggle to sell it for anything worthwhile … I never read anything about taking the head out and re-housing it and then using a lighter modern cabinet - is that a viable plan ? 

Edited June 8, 2023 by milford59

[msb]

Both amp and cab design have come a long way. I used to haul a fridge around. Today I use modern , modular , lightweight gear.
And have never sounded better. 

Now I’m nerdy about amps and cabs but simply don’t have the space to store extra stuff. And I’m not about to begin renting storage space for gear I’m not using.

 

[BassmanPaul]

When a piece of my equipment reaches the end of its time with me I tend to pass it on to a younger player who could use it to great effect

 

Recently sent one of my nephews , George, who plays bass, one of my six stringed instruments. I also sent him a Carvin BX1500 which will work on the 240V supplies you have over there.  When one of my brothers visit next month he'll take all the stuff I had on my pedal board for George.

[TheGreek]

Sadly,  despite the reasons given,  much of this "throwaway " gear will be working perfectly when all the Class D Amps we're currently using have given up the ghost and died and we'll all be reminiscing about how reliable it all was.

 

As mentioned above,  the best tone I can recall revolved around a TE (admittedly with Vanderkley cab).

 

I have 5 stashed away. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by TheGreek

[BigRedX]

Personally I'm glad that my "rig" has been reduced to a single FRFR which hardly ever leaves the rehearsal room as most of the time the PA does all the "lifting" for me.

 

Regarding reliability I've owned valve, solid state and class D amps. Nearly all have worked perfectly. The only failures in over 40 years of playing have been an all-valve amp that went pop in quite a spectacular way mid set, and a class D that suffered from a well-known design fault.

 

 

[msb]

I have a little GKMB200 that developed the pink ring of doom , but a qualified repair friend had no problems fixing it. Not all Class D amps are disposable. (the fan had become gunked up and things heated up) (yes the fan was repaired too)
Also have an older GenzBenz Streamliner. The LED light was out but was working fine otherwise. When I heard agedhorse was maintaining them I sent it off to him. And it’s like a brand new amp. Well worth investing in.

I do have an older SWR HeadLite that may prove difficult to fix , but it still runs perfectly … but some parts might become difficult to source. 

 

 

[shug]

On 05/06/2023 at 18:09, milford59 said:

I have a TE 7215 SMC which I bought new from Flying Pig Music about 20 years ago and it is absolutely mint - but like many people I am no spring chicken now and it’s heavy - as we all know… and I would struggle to sell it for anything worthwhile … I never read anything about taking the head out and re-housing it and then using a lighter modern cabinet - is that a viable plan ? 

It is more than viable. Done it a few times. TE heads, though heavy compared to a quilter or Mark Bass or whatever don't weigh all that much. I'm pretty feeble but can manage one ok. It's the cabs that are out of the question these days. TE heads are worth preserving and using if you can be bothered. Sound great and dead reliable, IME. Worth nowt, though. Last TE head I sold on Ebay a few years ago - an SMX350 IIRC - brought about £125. Shoulda kept it, really, but a deal's a deal...

[casapete]

7 hours ago, shug said:

It is more than viable. Done it a few times. TE heads, though heavy compared to a quilter or Mark Bass or whatever don't weigh all that much. I'm pretty feeble but can manage one ok. It's the cabs that are out of the question these days. TE heads are worth preserving and using if you can be bothered. Sound great and dead reliable, IME. Worth nowt, though. Last TE head I sold on Ebay a few years ago - an SMX350 IIRC - brought about £125. Shoulda kept it, really, but a deal's a deal...

Agree with you on some of the heads still being manageable, although my AH500 felt like it was 

bolted to the floor when trying to lift it up onto the cab. Second in weight only to my 80’s SVT.

[Lfalex v1.1]

On 27/05/2023 at 09:24, Lozz196 said:

My best ever tone just with bass & amp, no pedals was through three different rigs. in order of when I had them:

 

Hartke HA4000 with XL210 & 115 cabs

Marshall DBS7400 with VBC412 cab 

Ashdown ABM600 with ABM210 & 410 cabs

 

 

 

Funny that. 

 

My best ever tone was at a gig in Leicester Square. The venue had a Hartke HA3500 and a 4.5XL cab (4x10+T)

 

My Warwick Infinity SN4 sounded ace through it.

 

I had a Trace SMX, 4x10, 2x10 and 1x15 for various applications, but moved those on quite a while ago. They did the job. Didn't sound as sweet as the Hartke.

 

Next for me, a lighter, mid-sized, power tolerant cab. Then I'll try to find a suitable head.

[casapete]

2 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

 

 

Funny that. 

 

My best ever tone was at a gig in Leicester Square. The venue had a Hartke HA3500 and a 4.5XL cab (4x10+T)

 

My Warwick Infinity SN4 sounded ace through it.

 

I had a Trace SMX, 4x10, 2x10 and 1x15 for various applications, but moved those on quite a while ago. They did the job. Didn't sound as sweet as the Hartke.

 

Next for me, a lighter, mid-sized, power tolerant cab. Then I'll try to find a suitable head.

Another +1 for the Hartke HA3500. Seriously underrated IMHO, great amps.

[Waddo Soqable]

21 minutes ago, casapete said:

Another +1 for the Hartke HA3500. Seriously underrated IMHO, great amps.

Again funny that, how opinions can differ so much, I had a Hartke 3500 and absolutely hated it, thought it sounded shlt however you sliced it, I dumped it ASAP and got an old very used  Peavey which was brilliant. 

[BassmanPaul]

I had a Hartke 3500 for a while. When I was done with it I gave it away.

Edited June 11, 2023 by BassmanPaul