Bet they're kicking themselves now

[Barking Spiders]

Just wondering about big mistakes bands, individuals and companies have made especially when turning something down thinking it wasn't going to do much biz. The bloke who turned down The Beatles is probably the most obvious one. I just tuned into Planet Rock briefly and heard how Herbie Flowers was paid just £17 as a flat payment  for laying down the bassline to Walk on The Wild Side while Lou Reed must have been raking it in due to its often being sampled especially on Can You Kick It by a Tribe Called Quest, which is one of the best known and most played tracks in hip hop.

[Rich]

When Vincent Price recorded his part for MJ's Thriller album, he was offered either a flat fee or a percentage. He chose the fee.

 

[Downunderwonder]

8 minutes ago, Rich said:

When Vincent Price recorded his part for MJ's Thriller album, he was offered either a flat fee or a percentage. He chose the fee.

 

But what was the percentage? At that stage MJ was already a proven talent. I doubt anyone knows the tradeoff considered between guaranteed $$ and potential $$$$ or $$$$$$ depending on whether it hit small or big AND the percentage.

[BigRedX]

Was the possibility of a percentage ever on the table?

 

Most of these cases the musician(s) in question were paid their session fee which they happily accepted. Job done on to the next session.

 

I've always said that if you want to earn money after the fact then you need to be a songwriter.

[Crusoe]

Not music related and it's the opposite situation, but Alec Guinness was paid a fee of $150,000 for Star Wars, but also negotiated a 2% cut of the box office takings.

[Crusoe]

52 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

Just wondering about big mistakes bands, individuals and companies have made especially when turning something down thinking it wasn't going to do much biz. The bloke who turned down The Beatles is probably the most obvious one. I just tuned into Planet Rock briefly and heard how Herbie Flowers was paid just £17 as a flat payment  for laying down the bassline to Walk on The Wild Side while Lou Reed must have been raking it in due to its often being sampled especially on Can You Kick It by a Tribe Called Quest, which is one of the best known and most played tracks in hip hop.

Would Herbie have written the bassline, or just played what he was told to play?

[BigRedX]

32 minutes ago, Crusoe said:

Would Herbie have written the bassline, or just played what he was told to play?

 

I believe he wrote the actual notes (and came up with the idea of doubling up the Upright bass and bass guitar), but what he did would have been created to fit the song Lou Reed had already written, and there may not have been any indication at the tracking stage how prominent that bass part was ultimately going to be. This was often the case when playing sessions and should have been reflected in his session fee. If you want a cut of the song writing royalties then it need to be negotiated before you even play a note, and hope that you don't get dropped for another player.

 

Edit: and IIRC he doubled up the the bass parts specifically so he could charge double the session fee for playing two instruments, which meant that he was completely aware that his contribution was simply a session payment only.

Edited October 14, 2022 by BigRedX

[MacDaddy]

2 hours ago, Barking Spiders said:

Just wondering about big mistakes bands, individuals and companies have made especially when turning something down thinking it wasn't going to do much biz. The bloke who turned down The Beatles is probably the most obvious one. I just tuned into Planet Rock briefly and heard how Herbie Flowers was paid just £17 as a flat payment  for laying down the bassline to Walk on The Wild Side while Lou Reed must have been raking it in due to its often being sampled especially on Can You Kick It by a Tribe Called Quest, which is one of the best known and most played tracks in hip hop.

 

Unfairly maligned is Richard Rowe, apparently Epstein made up the infamous quote.

I'm sure I remember one of The Beatles saying he was probably right not to sign them, based on that one particular audition?

Anyway he went on to sign The 'Stones so not all bad.

 

[MrCrane]

Ray Jackson of Lindisfarne was paid a flat 15 quid for his work on the session during which he wrote the mandolin hook for Maggie May.

[Doctor J]

Every major label CEO who didn't recognise the sea-change in music consumption which mp3 and Napster pointed towards and let the delivery of their catalogues (and payment thereof) be controlled by third parties.

[Tim2291]

The singer who voiced Simba in the Lion King chose to take the percentage rather than the $100,000 fee! He's made over a million off the movie now!

[Rich]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Was the possibility of a percentage ever on the table?

 

Yes it was. The clue is in the phrase "he was offered either a flat fee or a percentage". 

[ped]

4 minutes ago, Rich said:

Yes it was. The clue is in the phrase "he was offered either a flat fee or a percentage". 

Might not have been on a table though 

[Grimalkin]

IIRC Dire Straits were recording Money For Nothing at the same studio Sting was using at the time, so they asked him to sing that little part on the intro. For which he received a cheque later down the line for one million quid. Which he was quite surprised at.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Grimalkin

[paul_5]

Eddie Van Haley famously played to solo yo ‘Beat It’ for free. Presumably being in tune costs extra.

[EssentialTension]

1 minute ago, paul_5 said:

Eddie Van Haley ...

 

Any relation to Bill Haley?

[bartelby]

2 minutes ago, paul_5 said:

Eddie Van Haley famously played to solo yo ‘Beat It’ for free. Presumably being in tune costs extra.

 

I'm sure EHV missed adding some money to his pile...

[Rich]

5 minutes ago, paul_5 said:

Eddie Van Haley famously played to solo yo ‘Beat It’ for free. Presumably being in tune costs extra.

 

1 minute ago, bartelby said:

 

I'm sure EHV missed adding some money to his pile...

 

Would that be Eddie Han Valey now?  

[MacDaddy]

59 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

IIRC Dire Straits were recording Money For Nothing at the same studio Sting was using at the time, so they asked him to sing that little part on the intro. For which he received a cheque later down the line for one million quid. Which he was quite surprised at.

 

Not sure why Sting would be surprised, he's credited as a songwriter.

[MacDaddy]

Just now, MacDaddy said:

 

Not sure why Sting would be surprised, he's credited as a songwriter.

 

Talking of Sting, he neither wrote nor played the main riff to Every Breath You Take, yet he earns around £2k a week from it, while Andy Summers doesn't.

[knirirr]

This article describes something that seems to me to be appropriate for the thread:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/6231899/Hank-Marvin-We-should-have-taken-Harrisons-advice-and-sung.html

[BigRedX]

7 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Talking of Sting, he neither wrote nor played the main riff to Every Breath You Take, yet he earns around £2k a week from it, while Andy Summers doesn't.

 

Which AFAICS is entirely Andy Summer's fault for not asking for a share of the songwriting on that particular song in the first place. There are other songs on the album (and other Police albums) that he is credited or co-credited as writing. At the time of writing it probably wasn't immediately noticeable what an important part of the song the guitar was going to be. After all traditionally songwriting credits go to the lyricist and whoever come up with the vocal melody. Not that this arrangement is applicable these days.

 

Every band works in a different way when it comes to songwriting credits. Some split everything equally between all the members of the band regardless of who wrote what, others only credit those who come up with the lyrics and main musical idea; and any possible combination in-between.

[Grimalkin]

22 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Not sure why Sting would be surprised, he's credited as a songwriter.

 

The article may be online but I think it was in Q magazine. So maybe not. It exceeded his expectations, put it that way.

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

Yes it was. The clue is in the phrase "he was offered either a flat fee or a percentage". 

 

In that particular case only. 

 

Most of the time if you are hired as a session musician, you are there simply to play. And get paid a one-off fee simply for playing.

[BigRedX]

2 hours ago, MrCrane said:

Ray Jackson of Lindisfarne was paid a flat 15 quid for his work on the session during which he wrote the mandolin hook for Maggie May.

 

And probably at the time was a nice little earner from his "day job". I suspect that he would have been in and out of the studio in under an hour, for which £15 isn't a bad deal today let alone in 1970 when the recording took place.