Thomann prices?

[Jack]

4 minutes ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

To bring it all back to Thomann: Maybe one positive outcome will be that Thomann will have to lower their prices to undercut local competitors (Andertons, PMT, GG, Gear4music etc.). Ordering from the EU is obviously becoming a hassle and only by having much better prices (after adding VAT, customs and handling fee), customers may still decide to order from them. Well, that's my hope at least 😉

I think that that's hopeful at best, they've still got the rest of the EU to trade with without all of the added hassle. They may just be able to do without us. We, on the other hand.....

Edited January 2, 2021 by Jack

[Newfoundfreedom]

52 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Indeed - having spent the morning looking into what we do for my wifes webshop, import and export, for the moment we have accepted that we will just stop all selling to the EU until it is clearer and take the 20% loss to her business. She hasn't got the time to deal with the extra paperwork, its a lot easier if you have staff to deal with it. 

Sunlit f'ing uplands. 

Same for my wife's business here in the EU. 

She will no longer be selling to the UK.

[Maude]

Hopefully just as much stuff from the EU will now slip through the net as from the rest of the world. 

I've bought all sorts from all round the world and have had to pay charges an amazingly few times. Not just cheaper items that are below some threshold either. I've even had stuff left on my doorstep from Royal Mail with a big sticker on saying 'Do not leave unless payment is collected', or words to that effect. 

[Doctor J]

6 minutes ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

To bring it all back to Thomann: Maybe one positive outcome will be that Thomann will have to lower their prices to undercut local competitors (Andertons, PMT, GG, Gear4music etc.). Ordering from the EU is obviously becoming a hassle and only by having much better prices (after adding VAT, customs and handling fee), customers may still decide to order from them. Well, that's my hope at least 😉

Reducing competition seldom drives prices down, usually the opposite, but, you never know, there's a first time for everything.

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 minute ago, Maude said:

Hopefully just as much stuff from the EU will now slip through the net as from the rest of the world. 

I've bought all sorts from all round the world and have had to pay charges an amazingly few times. Not just cheaper items that are below some threshold either. I've even had stuff left on my doorstep from Royal Mail with a big sticker on saying 'Do not leave unless payment is collected', or words to that effect. 

Ah yes. 

At least we might have British incompetence to fall back on. 

[Maude]

Just now, Newfoundfreedom said:

Ah yes. 

At least we might have British incompetence to fall back on. 

Hey, it's good to have something solid to depend on. 😉

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Maude said:

Hopefully just as much stuff from the EU will now slip through the net as from the rest of the world. 

I've bought all sorts from all round the world and have had to pay charges an amazingly few times. Not just cheaper items that are below some threshold either. I've even had stuff left on my doorstep from Royal Mail with a big sticker on saying 'Do not leave unless payment is collected', or words to that effect. 

That's exactly the opposite of whats going to happen. No business is going to become liable for tax fraud by not collecting the tax.

HMRC have a record of every item coming in. No record of tax being paid on that item number, HMRC can go knocking straight at the door of the vendor. A hell of a lot easier than tracing all the individuals that are not paying tax on the received goods.

In one way, it addresses tax evasion... however, you have to have goods (and that means people that are willing to put up with the BS) in order to collect tax.

There's a lot easier ways for HMRC to start claiming higher tax revenues. Like stopping the loop holes for the likes of Amazon... and stopping ministers like Robert Jenrick doing under the table tax deals that denies HMRC money.

[EBS_freak]

4 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

Ah yes. 

At least we might have British incompetence to fall back on. 

Nope. Once CDS (CHIEF replacement) is up to to speed with it all, combined with Connect, tax collection is going to be a lot easier for HMRC. But as I say, they still need goods to collect tax on.

And if none of this means anything to you, they are the HMRC tax import and export systems and fraud detection system. Have a wiki. Enjoy

[Woodinblack]

21 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

Same for my wife's business here in the EU. 

She will no longer be selling to the UK.

Yes, thats understandable. But as she just said when I relayed that to her - "I would rather be a small business in the EU not selling to the UK than a small business in the UK not selling to the EU".

15 minutes ago, Maude said:

I've bought all sorts from all round the world and have had to pay charges an amazingly few times. Not just cheaper items that are below some threshold either. I've even had stuff left on my doorstep from Royal Mail with a big sticker on saying 'Do not leave unless payment is collected', or words to that effect. 

That relied on the low value consignement relief (LVCR), which was £15. Basically anything below £15 wasn't liable for VAT to make life easy, so you could get suppliers to say it was lower than £15 and it wouldn't be checked unless you were lucky. 

They have got rid of the LVCR from 1st Jan too, there is no lower threshold now, everything is liable.

edit - which means if you import something that costs £1 from anywhere (this isn't a europe thing), you would pay £1.00 for the item, 20p for the vat and presumably £8 for the royal mail tax.

edit 2 - as my wife just said "If they wanted to do this, why didn't they just build a wall around the country?"

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Woodinblack

[Newfoundfreedom]

3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Nope. Once CDS (CHIEF replacement) is up to to speed with it all, combined with Connect, tax collection is going to be a lot easier for HMRC. But as I say, they still need goods to collect tax on.

And if none of this means anything to you, they are the HMRC tax import and export systems and fraud detection system. Have a wiki. Enjoy

Oh not to worry. If Royal Mail are involved anywhere in the chain, there's still plenty of scope for a f### up. 

[EBS_freak]

Just now, Newfoundfreedom said:

Oh not to worry. If Royal Mail are involved anywhere in the chain, there's still plenty of scope for a f### up. 

Royal Mail are way down in the pecking list where the collection of money is involved. So in reality, the f### up is you actually receiving nothing after paying through the nose for everything. Oh and have fun trying to reclaim the tax on the items that you haven't actually received... because that's up to the vendor dealing with HMRC to recover the money before they can push it back to you. I mean, the company could pay you back and bridge the gap whilst they wait for the money back from HMRC... but you. know, companies go bump.

[LukeFRC]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

Yes, thats understandable. But as she just said when I relayed that to her - "I would rather be a small business in the EU not selling to the UK than a small business in the UK not selling to the EU".

the other interesting thing for UK businesses selling within the EU now is how distance selling regs works. 
For example under the EU distance selling regs we could send things back to a shop and legally the shop had to pay the postage. That legal right doesn't exist now. 
It will be interesting what happens the first time say a German individual buys something from a UK company, and the purchase goes wrong... who's court arbitrates now? 

[stewblack]

Us discussing this is like a group of flies discussing what it's going to be like when the cow they're sat on walks to the other side of the field. 

Seriously why bother? What will happen will happen whether we guess what it will be or not. 

We have no power, no control. The only thing to do is wait and cope as best we can when what happens, happens. 

[LukeFRC]

9 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Nope. Once CDS (CHIEF replacement) is up to to speed with it all, combined with Connect, tax collection is going to be a lot easier for HMRC. But as I say, they still need goods to collect tax on.

And if none of this means anything to you, they are the HMRC tax import and export systems and fraud detection system. Have a wiki. Enjoy

Are you suggesting that HMRC have built a digital solution to all this that might actually work effectively? That sounds like a good thing

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 minute ago, LukeFRC said:

who's court arbitrates now? 

I believe there's a kangaroo involved. 

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, stewblack said:

Us discussing this is like a group of flies discussing what it's going to be like when the cow they're sat on walks to the other side of the field. 

Seriously why bother? What will happen will happen whether we guess what it will be or not. 

We have no power, no control. The only thing to do is wait and cope as best we can when what happens, happens. 

So basically, you are saying we are as clueless as the people that voted for all this shower?

[EBS_freak]

Just now, Newfoundfreedom said:

I believe there's a kangaroo involved. 

Australia aren't in Europe.

[Burns-bass]

1 minute ago, stewblack said:

Us discussing this is like a group of flies discussing what it's going to be like when the cow they're sat on walks to the other side of the field. 

Seriously why bother? What will happen will happen whether we guess what it will be or not. 

We have no power, no control. The only thing to do is wait and cope as best we can when what happens, happens. 

The best thing to do is to keep hold of your money and play the basses you’ve already got.

[kodiakblair]

38 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Then there is the cost of sending stuff which is going to go up massively, to the point where the cost of the shipping will be far in excess of the costs of the items.

It already has increased,  hikes are massive 😠

 

11/12/20  £300 bass shipped to Sweden fully insured £36

01/01/21 quote for sending same bass to Freiburg, Germany. £86 with basic insurance.

 

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 minute ago, stewblack said:

Us discussing this is like a group of flies discussing what it's going to be like when the cow they're sat on walks to the other side of the field. 

Seriously why bother? What will happen will happen whether we guess what it will be or not. 

We have no power, no control. The only thing to do is wait and cope as best we can when what happens, happens. 

I know what you're saying Stu.

But at this point we shouldn't be guessing (or having to guess) anything at all. 

The fact that this has already in play and nobody has a bloody clue what's going on, speaks volumes.

 

 

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Burns-bass said:

The best thing to do is to keep hold of your money and play the basses you’ve already got.

Boost the economy, spend, spend, spend!

[Newfoundfreedom]

2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Australia aren't in Europe.

No. But they're now easier to do business with than the UK. 

A lot of my wife's business is with Australia and it's simple. 

[ambient]

1 hour ago, Maude said:

I'm a little confused, and I'm quoting your post but it's not just related to your wife's business. 

A few people have said business won't be bothered /don't have the time for all the extra paperwork involved in the new way of collecting VAT. Yet others are saying the handling fee the couriers will be charging is a payment for them handling the VAT collection. 

If the couriers are handling the VAT collection, don't businesses just sell the goods and move on with no extra hassle? 

There’s a lot of paperwork involved in exporting and importing goods. If it’s not completed properly, then the goods will be held up. There was a farmer interviewed on my local news last night complaining about the mountain of paperwork that he’s going to have to do from now on - he exports dairy produce I believe into the EU. Obviously time is money as they say, so large businesses will probably need to employ someone to do that, which pushes up their overheads. They’re not going to take that hit, so they’ll increase their prices to cover it. They’re then having to compete with EU based businesses who haven’t got the paperwork related costs, possibly making them cheaper. There was a company on the news a few days ago, that exports glass eels to mainland Europe - I didn’t even know they were a thing tbh - anyway, he was complaining about this. He ships them over by road a few times each week, if he puts his price up, then the customers will go simply buy from a European supplier. There isn’t a domestic market for them - maybe it’ll catch on though, anyone fancy glass eels and chips?

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

No. But they're now easier to do business with than the UK. 

A lot of my wife's business is with Australia and it's simple. 

It was a joke!

Funnily enough, check out the bit at the bottom of this page - 

https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, ambient said:

There’s a lot of paperwork involved in exporting and importing goods. If it’s not completed properly, then the goods will be held up. There was a farmer interviewed on my local news last night complaining about the mountain of paperwork that he’s going to have to do from now on - he exports dairy produce I believe into the EU. Obviously time is money as they say, so large businesses will probably need to employ someone to do that, which pushes up their overheads. They’re not going to take that hit, so they’ll increase their prices to cover it. They’re then having to compete with EU based businesses who haven’t got the paperwork related costs, possibly making them cheaper. There was a company on the news a few days ago, that exports glass eels to mainland Europe - I didn’t even know they were a thing tbh - anyway, he was complaining about this. He ships them over by road a few times each week, if he puts his price up, then the customers will go simply buy from a European supplier. There isn’t a domestic market for them - maybe it’ll catch on though, anyone fancy glass eels and chips?

And interestingly enough, a massive proportion of UK famers voted for Brexit, despite their business not being viable without the EU subsidies.