Thomann prices?

[Newfoundfreedom]

3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

It was a joke!

Funnily enough, check out the bit at the bottom of this page - 

https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

Probably worth quoting directly.

I'll just leave this here without further comment. 

 

Brexit

Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.

Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Newfoundfreedom

[Maude]

1 minute ago, EBS_freak said:

And interestingly enough, a massive proportion of UK famers voted for Brexit, despite their business not being viable without the EU subsidies.

I was about to post that down here in Cornwall it was mainly the farming community that were the driving force behind Brexit. 

[paul_c2]

15 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

the other interesting thing for UK businesses selling within the EU now is how distance selling regs works. 
For example under the EU distance selling regs we could send things back to a shop and legally the shop had to pay the postage. That legal right doesn't exist now. 
It will be interesting what happens the first time say a German individual buys something from a UK company, and the purchase goes wrong... who's court arbitrates now? 

That was true when the goods were faulty/not as described etc, but it was never true for the "I've just changed my mind" situation under DSR.

[Woodinblack]

13 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Seriously why bother? What will happen will happen whether we guess what it will be or not. 

Because for some of us, it is our livelihood so we do really care.

Technically we should have control, but I think that is slipping away these days.

As someone once said,

Should we shout, should we scream, -  "What happened to the post war dream?"

[LukeFRC]

4 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

It was a joke!

Funnily enough, check out the bit at the bottom of this page - 

https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

Which seems reasonable.
So a lot of companies are just going to not bother selling to the UK then. 

Oddly enough - if a similar company in the Netherlands refused to go along with this UK system and did just shove it in the post with a declaration of value - what would happen?
Like I can't imagine the Brexit deal obligeses EU companies to comply with our demands? 

[Steve Browning]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

Vat is the smallest of issues in my wifes business, that is just an additional cost. No, the problems are that she is a small one woman shop that sells around 500 products, some handmade, some bought from suppliers (pet supply stuff). When sending to the EU now, each of those products needs an ID for customs, which is ok if it comes from a large supplier but obviously not if it is handmade. When she sends something to europe she has to do a declaration with all of those product IDs. Which she doesn't have and cant get. obviously she can pay for these ids, but the products have a value all probably less than a tenner and the IDS is a lot of work and cost for each one.

At least that is what we think. There is no government page on it that doesn't have a contradicting government page on it. In conversations with her suppliers, they don't really know. There are a few suppliers in Europe who are just not even going to bother sending to the UK as it is too complicated

Then she needs an ID to have permission to even send the stuff. Then there is the cost of sending stuff which is going to go up massively, to the point where the cost of the shipping will be far in excess of the costs of the items.

Basically, for a business like hers, this has removed Europe as a market, there is no way to be competitive with a business that is already there. 

For those that say 'oh this is just like dealing with the rest of the world; - no, it isn't even close. The closest thing is dealing with some of the non EU european states, which was always a lot of hassle (but quite low issues), where you have to know the individual rules and quirks of dealing with it, such as norway. USA / Australia etc - nothing like the hassle dealing with them. 

Basically I can't see that if you had introduced a law banning small companies from dealing with europe it would have done any more damage to the country. 

Do you mean commodity codes? The Tariff is available online and not difficult to navigate. 

[LukeFRC]

17 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Us discussing this is like a group of flies discussing what it's going to be like when the cow they're sat on walks to the other side of the field. 

Seriously why bother? What will happen will happen whether we guess what it will be or not. 

We have no power, no control. The only thing to do is wait and cope as best we can when what happens, happens. 

I thought the whole thing was about taking back control. Wasn't that the point? 

[LukeFRC]

3 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

That was true when the goods were faulty/not as described etc, but it was never true for the "I've just changed my mind" situation under DSR.

good point. the company I worked for a few years back every customer who changed their minds managed to find a fault.

[paul_c2]

....Then you could fix it and send it back to them (or send another working one) instead of refunding. The vendor has the option to repair/replace/refund in the case of faulty goods supplied - there is no implied right to a refund.

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by paul_c2

[Woodinblack]

6 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Do you mean commodity codes? The Tariff is available online and not difficult to navigate. 

Maybe if you are an import / exporter its not. If your job is sewing and pet medication, I can assure you it is a lot harder.

[Maude]

Surely if things like the way VAT is collected and companies like the one in the link just choose not to sell to us, then things can, and will have to,

change in the future. If all this has a massive negative impact then surely we'll put a different collection system in place.

Maybe if enough businesses choose not to sell to us then that will leave a hole in the market which could be filled by new UK businesses. 

Maybe I'm just niave. 

 

[EBS_freak]

9 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I thought the whole thing was about taking back control. Wasn't that the point? 

I’m not sure what we’ve gained right now?

Its like we’ve just looked down the end of a shotgun and pulled the trigger...?

[Eldon Tyrell]

36 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

Reducing competition seldom drives prices down, usually the opposite, but, you never know, there's a first time for everything.

Reducing competition - That's correct for our local retailers as they may lose strong competitors from abroad (e.g. Thomann) and could use that for increasing prices. However, I thought that for Thomann to stay competitive and attractive to us here, they would need to lower their prices for UK customers to compensate for the costs (both monetary and non-monetary) we are incurring when ordering from them. That would obviously negatively impact their profits but still be necessary to avoid losing some share of a big market (I obviously don't know how much Thomann is selling to us but I can imagine that it is a lot). However, our retailers probably also sell a lot to the EU (esp. Andertons?) and will face the same issues keeping EU customers happy. Hmm, well, I guess, as always, we probably won't see any price reductions but only increases 😒

[EBS_freak]

Just now, Maude said:

Surely if things like the way VAT is collected and companies like the one in the link just choose not to sell to us, then things can, and will have to,

change in the future. If all this has a massive negative impact then surely we'll put a different collection system in place.

Maybe if enough businesses choose not to sell to us then that will leave a hole in the market which could be filled by new UK businesses. 

Maybe I'm just niave. 

 

Yup. I think your last words sum it up.

So imagine that the UK miraculously turns itself into a manufacturing powerhouse... where are the raw components coming from?

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 minute ago, Maude said:

Surely if things like the way VAT is collected and companies like the one in the link just choose not to sell to us, then things can, and will have to,

change in the future. If all this has a massive negative impact then surely we'll put a different collection system in place.

Maybe if enough businesses choose not to sell to us then that will leave a hole in the market which could be filled by new UK businesses. 

Maybe I'm just niave. 

 

Possibly, eventually.

In the meantime how many businesses are going to be causalities? 

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

In the meantime how many businesses are going to be causalities? 

Don’t be silly - they are just victims of the pandemic.

[Newfoundfreedom]

Just now, EBS_freak said:

Don’t be silly - they are just victims of the pandemic.

I believe that's known as adding insult to injury. 

[EBS_freak]

4 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

I believe that's known as adding insult to injury. 

Sorry. I’m just guessing what the official response will be.

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 minute ago, EBS_freak said:

Sorry. I’m just guessing what the official response will be.

Yeah I knew what you meant. 😉

[Maude]

6 minutes ago, Maude said:

Maybe I'm just niave. 

 

4 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Yup. I think your last words sum it up.

I'll admit that on matters like this I am. 

I'd just like to say thanks to folks that they can discuss matters like this, that clearly matter a lot to their lives, without resorting to arguing. 

A lot of folks would think I'm a terrible person for the way I live my life. Very simply put, I go to work, take my pay and enjoy life, staying out the way of things that don't matter to me. Not head in the sand but screaming at the wind doesn't appeal either. 

I do feel things have a way of sorting themselves out but realise this doesn't help others that are directly impacted by the B word, and I thank you all for educating me a bit. 

[ambient]

There’s mention of UK shops taking up business from continental shops like Thomman, would they be affected too though? I’ve never imported or exported goods as a business so I don’t know the ins and outs. Surely if it’s more expensive for private UK buyers to import EU goods, it’ll be more expensive for businesses too, if the goods were built in Europe?

I know a lot of Bass direct’s sales were into Europe - at least they used to be - I’m guessing they’ll be affected by price increases, they’ll certainly have a lot of paperwork to compete.

[EBS_freak]

13 minutes ago, Maude said:

 

I'll admit that on matters like this I am. 

I'd just like to say thanks to folks that they can discuss matters like this, that clearly matter a lot to their lives, without resorting to arguing. 

A lot of folks would think I'm a terrible person for the way I live my life. Very simply put, I go to work, take my pay and enjoy life, staying out the way of things that don't matter to me. Not head in the sand but screaming at the wind doesn't appeal either. 

I do feel things have a way of sorting themselves out but realise this doesn't help others that are directly impacted by the B word, and I thank you all for educating me a bit. 

No worries.

One if my biggest disappointments is that the folk of the UK were given a vote on a subject in which they are not qualified or informed enough to do with any credibility.

If you had cancer, would you take advice from a doctor who is an expert in the field, or Bob, who’s “done his research”?

Just out of interest, what is your line of work? You may be surprised how these changes could impact you, you just don’t know yet.

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

10 minutes ago, ambient said:

There’s mention of UK shops taking up business from continental shops like Thomman, would they be affected too though? I’ve never imported or exported goods as a business so I don’t know the ins and outs. Surely if it’s more expensive for private UK buyers to import EU goods, it’ll be more expensive for businesses too, if the goods were built in Europe?

I know a lot of Bass direct’s sales were into Europe - at least they used to be - I’m guessing they’ll be affected by price increases, they’ll certainly have a lot of paperwork to compete.

There you go. All more expensive - and all the costs will be passed onto the consumer.

A lot of Bass Directs stock is from small boutique manufacturers too... that don’t want the overheads of dealing with the UK. As much as I feel wrong saying this, if BD sell a lot to Europe, it would be in the manufacturers interest to find a comparable operation within the EU to bypass the red tape to reach their EU based customers.

Edited January 2, 2021 by EBS_freak

[Jack]

12 minutes ago, Maude said:

I do feel things have a way of sorting themselves out but realise this doesn't help others that are directly impacted by the B word, and I thank you all for educating me a bit. 

I think a big part of the issue, for those of us who didn't want it, is that we are very much of the opinion that the B word will impact all of us directly.

 

At least 2 businesses have been mentioned in this thread about not selling to the UK any more, at least for a bit. That's 2 fewer options that we all have now. 

[Woodinblack]

16 minutes ago, ambient said:

I know a lot of Bass direct’s sales were into Europe - at least they used to be - I’m guessing they’ll be affected by price increases, they’ll certainly have a lot of paperwork to compete.

In a way I think it is a bit easier for those businesses. If you are selling a £1000 plus bass, it is worth spending some time getting the paperwork sorted, and it was already expensive, now more so. Its where the items are low value high quantity that there are the issues.