The Short Scale Bass Appreciation Society!

[Woodinblack]

I can't see any explanation of caremelised on Harley Benton's site, but the cheap ones appear caramelised, and the more expensive are roasted. In all the press about roasted neck instruments, they mention the neck has been roasted to give extra stability, in all the caramelised ones they just mention it is a nicer colour. If I was to buy an HB with what I see on the net, I would assume that caramelised was just like the presidential tribute spray tan version!

[LeftyJ]

Caramelisation is also a thermal treatment, and should not just a layer of caramel-coloured lacquer. That would be rather deceiving. I see the words roasted, baked, caramelized and torrefied used depending on the manufacturer, and usually they all indicate the wood has been heated / thermally treated. 

[JohnDaBass]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Caramelised and roasted both mean that the wood has been treated by torrefaction. Harley Benton may be using different sources/grades but if those necks are merely stained that would be deliberately misleading. 

 

Has anyone actually cut a caramelised nevk to check? Orbis it just an assumption.

I have not tampered with the neck but I can confirm that the body is alder. I had to modify the body to add two Thunderbird pickups in place of the stock P/J Pups. 

These are fantastic value for money instruments who's fit, finish and quality far exceed the £199 I paid for mine. 

[AlexDelores]

I have to admit that up until about 2 years ago, I don’t think I’d seen a roasted neck. Yet, they seem to be going on everything now. Is there a benefit to the process or is it just the in thing. 
 

Genuine question this, I’m not against them, I think they look great. Just curious as to whether there’s more to it than aesthetics. 
 

Alex 

[fretmeister]

19 minutes ago, AlexDelores said:

I have to admit that up until about 2 years ago, I don’t think I’d seen a roasted neck. Yet, they seem to be going on everything now. Is there a benefit to the process or is it just the in thing. 
 

Genuine question this, I’m not against them, I think they look great. Just curious as to whether there’s more to it than aesthetics. 
 

Alex 

 

I have strong suspicions that it is just a way for guitar makers to speed up the drying process of their stock and then come up with a suitable reason for the colour change that punters will believe.

[Clarky]

Bass the World review of Rick 4030S

 

 

[scrumpymike]

1 hour ago, AlexDelores said:

I have to admit that up until about 2 years ago, I don’t think I’d seen a roasted neck. Yet, they seem to be going on everything now. Is there a benefit to the process or is it just the in thing. 
 

Genuine question this, I’m not against them, I think they look great. Just curious as to whether there’s more to it than aesthetics. 
 

Alex 

I think that it's a question of how long the neck is left on the BBQ / in the pizza oven - whatever the heat source is. My understanding is that the full roasting process is necessary to achieve the stability benefits and that, by that stage, you're very close to ending up with a lump of charcoal apparently. Obviouslt the neck has then to be sealed in a way that stops any moisture getting back in.

 

Can't remember where I actually read the above but I think it was in the course of researching Wilcock basses. I now have one btw but it looks like the neck has been cooked by somebody who eats his steak raw.

[EssentialTension]

1 hour ago, Clarky said:

Bass the World review of Rick 4030S

 

 

 

I've never been tempted by a Rickenbacker ..................................... until now.

[EssentialTension]

56 minutes ago, EssentialTension said:

 

I've never been tempted by a Rickenbacker ..................................... until now.

 

However, I've also lost interest rather swiftly.

[dmckee]

But have they just taken a standard Ric and moved the bridge 4 inches into the body?? 

[Clarky]

48 minutes ago, dmckee said:

But have they just taken a standard Ric and moved the bridge 4 inches into the body?? 

Thats about the size of it. So the bass will not be significantly lighter than a standard Rick, which would have been one of the attactions to me.

 

Lots of discussion in this thread:

 

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/517825-new-rickenbacker-short-scale-the-4030s/

[Stub Mandrel]

7 hours ago, fretmeister said:

 

I have strong suspicions that it is just a way for guitar makers to speed up the drying process of their stock and then come up with a suitable reason for the colour change that punters will believe.

 

'Torrefaction' is heat treating timber above 180⁰ causing the maillard reaction - there are many processes wikipedia lists hot nitrogen, steam, oil and even molten metal has been used. The extreme version prepares wood pellets for furnaces. A less extreme one produces cladding for use in saunas.

 

It increases stability and resistance to humidity (to the extent guitar necks may not need lacquer) but reduces strength.

 

Presumably the ideal is enough treatment to improve stability without causing brittleness. In the long run, therefore, it may not follow that more extreme or expensive processes are better - although I imagine a well controlled process is more predictable. 

 

No one seems to have actually tested or decided if they SOUND better or are more or less durable yet. But they look nice and the thin finishes that can be used feel nice.

 

My guess is that Harley Benton's caramelisation and roasting differ in detail - if only by being done in different places.

[The fasting showman]

I've no link to the sale at all but there's a short scale Jaydee Roadie for sale at Bass Bros.

I've no funds whatsoever for such a thing but it's a really interesting bass for JMJ mustang money.

[bassist_lewis]

42 minutes ago, The fasting showman said:

I've no link to the sale at all but there's a short scale Jaydee Roadie for sale at Bass Bros.

I've no funds whatsoever for such a thing but it's a really interesting bass for JMJ mustang money.

https://bassbros.co.uk/product/jaydee-series-4-roadie-ii/

 

There you go! Almost suspicious seeing a Jaydee at that price...

[Chienmortbb]

I think the Jaydee has gone, and it was a bit rich for my blood anyway.

 

[scrumpymike]

I was about to buy the Jaydee when I noticed the lack of a serial number on the headstock. Bass Bros said this was because it was a prototype but I'm not prepared to buy something that effectively has no traceability.

[The fasting showman]

2 hours ago, scrumpymike said:

I was about to buy the Jaydee when I noticed the lack of a serial number on the headstock. Bass Bros said this was because it was a prototype but I'm not prepared to buy something that effectively has no traceability.

The guys at Jaydee in my experience are always helpful. I wonder if they could accredit the bass in some way to make it identifiable?

I was just surprised at it's existence at all, a 30.5 scale Jaydee Supernatural 

 

Correction: Roadie not Supernatural 

Edited 14 hours ago by The fasting showman
Error

[scrumpymike]

1 hour ago, The fasting showman said:

The guys at Jaydee in my experience are always helpful. I wonder if they could accredit the bass in some way to make it identifiable?

I was just surprised at it's existence at all, a 30.5 scale Jaydee Supernatural 

Thanks for the good thought but I'm definitely going to pass on this one.

[fretmeister]

In my ongoing quest for the perfect shortie strings I stuck a set of La Bella IMA signatures on my Lionel.

 

I really like the feel of these on my 34 scale Sandberg but the tension of the set is a bit high in regular tuning, but on a shortie they feel perfect. The Lionel has full sized machinehead posts so there's been no string damage winding them - the strings are groundwound rather than a flat and still very round feeling to me, but with much lower string noise than most others.

 

Very reasonably priced at Bass Direct as well - I will be getting more of them. I asked IMA himself on IG about other options and he tells me that there won't be other gauges coming (boo!) but short scale versions are expected (yay!).

 

So for basses with smaller string posts it looks like some will become available.

[Chienmortbb]

So I am going for a short scale, but as It is because of an injury, I don’t want to pay out too much as, once I have recovered, I may go back to 34” basses. 
 

I have a bass that was paid for with some of the money my Mum left me. 
 

So the question is Hartwood Delta or Harley Benton MV-4MSB? The Harley Benton looks great but is not immediately available. The Hartwood Delta is available and the only downside is that I like black basses. 
 

If we ignore the colour issue, what should I go for?

[JohnDaBass]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

So I am going for a short scale, but as It is because of an injury, I don’t want to pay out too much as, once I have recovered, I may go back to 34” basses. 
 

I have a bass that was paid for with some of the money my Mum left me. 
 

So the question is Hartwood Delta or Harley Benton MV-4MSB? The Harley Benton looks great but is not immediately available. The Hartwood Delta is available and the only downside is that I like black basses. 
 

If we ignore the colour issue, what should I go for?

I guess which ever one you buy, knowing a little about your bass tastes, you'll probably upgrade the Pups. (£60-£80).

So I would be inclined to add a used G&L Fallout Tribute and a used Squier SS Jaguar to your list. 

If you recover fully and return to 34ins scale basses , chances are you would loose less when you move on your Short scale bass.

Best wishes on a speedy recovery.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by JohnDaBass
Spelling

[BassAgent]

2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

So I am going for a short scale, but as It is because of an injury, I don’t want to pay out too much as, once I have recovered, I may go back to 34” basses. 
 

I have a bass that was paid for with some of the money my Mum left me. 
 

So the question is Hartwood Delta or Harley Benton MV-4MSB? The Harley Benton looks great but is not immediately available. The Hartwood Delta is available and the only downside is that I like black basses. 
 

If we ignore the colour issue, what should I go for?

Well, I don't know the Hartwood. I do know the Harley Benton and that is absolutely excellent. Even the pickups are fine. It's not available in black ATM but if the colour isn't a huge issue, you can go for a seafoam green or daphne blue one. I'd definitely go for the HB.