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What Killed Rock & Roll?

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1 hour ago, PaulWarning said:

That's  the trouble as a rule cars don't  come with it fitted as standard I've  got one of those highway things

What's that Paul ?

 

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3 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Aye...

Our band decided before our 1st gig that we'd all wear similar clothes (basically the urban commando look).

I turned up with camos, boots, the lot. Suitable, I felt, for a protest sort of band with songs like "Fight The System"

Singer wore a Stussy t shirt with jeans (he said "but I like them!" with no irony at all in wearing a corporate logo!), drummer wore shorts and metal band tshirt stretched over his belly - his excuse was that he'd be too hot in anything else; I pointed out that camo shorts are available, and that I'd specifically gone and bought stuff according to what we'd decided!

So no unified band image - we were just another band on the circuit looking the same as all the others. 

Things to do before joining a tribute band number 1: check what the bassist wears on stage. Or possibly select the band you'd like to be in a tribute to based on what the bassist wears on stage.

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1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

What's that Paul ?

 

Pure Highway, its a DAB radio tuner that connects to your existing radio, been discontinued now and replaced by something more expensive but there's similar products out there 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Majority-Journey-Bluetooth-Handsfree-Streaming/dp/B07DNH6YQB/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_23_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0H0K8KBX5MGKPFRDH4A5

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32 minutes ago, tauzero said:

Things to do before joining a tribute band

I'd be happy to give bass players looking to join, or even to found, a 16 Choke Start tribute band tips on:

a) playing far too many notes

b) the best camo trousers based on price, weight, price and comfort

c) stopping the guitarist and drummer fighting about what is, isn't or should be politically correct

d) trying to educate said guitarist and drummer into The Funk, The Whole Funk And Nothing But The Funk

 

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36 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

Pure Highway, its a DAB radio tuner that connects to your existing radio, been discontinued now and replaced by something more expensive but there's similar products out there 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Majority-Journey-Bluetooth-Handsfree-Streaming/dp/B07DNH6YQB/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_23_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0H0K8KBX5MGKPFRDH4A5

I’ve got one fitted. These are great. Radio 6 is on always. I love R6. I’ve discovered loads of new bands. No adverts and some interesting DJs. Defo recommended

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6 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

The bit about radio stations is spot on. I remember quite a few great radio stations that played a wide variety of styles of music on the one show. The DJ made his choics. Then the financial side took over and stations were paid by who-ever to play certain bands. The stations made more money and the DJ's were forced to play a list based on who paid the most. At that point we lose a valuable radio station to corporate greed.

Sorry, Dave, but it doesn't work like this and hasn't for decades. The reason that stations now sound so homogenised and samey is far more prosaic.

When there were only a few radio stations (R1, R2 and perhaps one local commercial station) DJ's and PD's used to choose songs that stood out from the crowd, the idea being to compete for audiences through innovation and difference. There are now many more competing radio stations (and media outlets) so programmers have adopted a defensive philosophy where the aim is to retain audience for longer periods of continuous listening. It's no longer about gaining an audience - it's about preventing loss of audience.

A PD once said to me: 'We have to make it like a constant stream of warm water, not too hot, not too cold. No nasty surprises or anything that breaks the flow and makes the listener hit the button'. Songs are chosen not because they're 'good' but because they comply with a policy of anaesthetising the audience so they don't change stations. Mediocrity prevails not because of corporate greed but because it's the objective.

Indeed, on bigger stations many PD's are careful to be seen to be not choosing the songs. New records are put out to panel testing where interviewees listen to 30 sec snippets and rank them. The results go back to the radio station and the playlist is structured accordingly. If a station's audience subsequently declines the PD can hold his hand up and say 'Not my fault, guv. We played the records the panel said they liked'. 

So: not so much a corporate conspiracy as an institutional failure of nerve and good, old-fashioned ärse-covering.

Edited by skankdelvar
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21 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Sorry, Dave, but it doesn't work like this and hasn't for decades. The reason that stations now sound so homogenised and samey is far more prosaic.

When there were only a few radio stations (R1, R2 and perhaps one local commercial station) DJ's and PD's used to choose songs that stood out from the crowd, the idea being to compete for audiences through innovation and difference. There are now many more competing radio stations (and media outlets) so programmers have adopted a defensive philosophy where the aim is to retain audience for longer periods of continuous listening. It's no longer about gaining an audience - it's about preventing loss of audience.

A PD once said to me: 'We have to make it like a constant stream of warm water, not too hot, not too cold. No nasty surprises or anything that breaks the flow and makes the listener hit the button'. Songs are chosen not because they're 'good' but because they comply with a policy of anaesthetising the audience so they don't change stations. Mediocrity prevails not because of corporate greed but because it's the objective.

Indeed, on bigger stations many PD's are careful to be seen to be not choosing the songs. New records are put out to panel testing where interviewees listen to 30 sec snippets and rank them. The results go back to the radio station and the playlist is structured accordingly. If a station's audience subsequently declines the PD can hold his hand up and say 'Not my fault, guv. We played the records the panel said they liked'. 

So: not so much a corporate conspiracy as an institutional failure of nerve and good, old-fashioned ärse-covering.

Yep. Mediocrity prevails and mediocrity sells. Why do commercial radio stations never play stuff that's remotely experimental, quirky or virtuosic? Look at the big names in pop of the last 20 years. Kylie Minogue, Robbie Williams, Take That, Coldplay, Adele, Ed Sheeran etc. Not even their most ardent fans could say any of them is a great singer or player or had an ounce of originality. They all conform to a tried and tested industry template or blueprint that's a proven commercial winner.

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I think most here are shying away from the truth.

Political Correctness. It seems white males in particular are no longer allowed to be well....blokes if you like. R&R was a vehicle for said group to show off a bit and to talk about how they felt in a good way about women.

Not allowed to do that anymore..nope! 

Also. R&R is descended from the blues and year by year we are gradually moving further away from the blues.

 

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1 hour ago, oldbass said:

I think most here are shying away from the truth.

Political Correctness. It seems white males in particular are no longer allowed to be well....blokes if you like. R&R was a vehicle for said group to show off a bit and to talk about how they felt in a good way about women.

Not allowed to do that anymore..nope!

If what you're saying is that rock'n'roll is inexorably linked with misogyny, then perhaps it's for the best that it's dead.

S.P.

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1 hour ago, oldbass said:

Political Correctness. It seems white males in particular are no longer allowed to be well....blokes if you like. R&R was a vehicle for said group to show off a bit and to talk about how they felt in a good way about women.

It's gone mad, I tell you!

 

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16 minutes ago, Stylon Pilson said:

If what you're saying is that rock'n'roll is inexorably linked with misogyny, then perhaps it's for the best that it's dead.

S.P.

Well it didn't take long did it..ha

Since time immemorial men and women have sung about each other for good or bad......its called life. So what ur saying is we can now only sing about inanimate objects/the environment?

It's exactly this disastrous PC view of the world which is killing everything that is normal human behavior....the good and the bad.

 

 

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Women have always been more important to the music industry than men, because historically they spend more money on buying records - 'girls just want to have fun' has always been true, women are very amenable to spending their money on enjoying themselves and things/activities that make them feel good. The moment that women don't want to dance to your music and don't view you as desirable, it's game over pretty much.

During the golden era of rock and roll society was much more sexist, racist and homophobic than it is now, so I'm not sure why anyone would be suprised that peoples expectations have changed and they are voting with their feet and wallets.

There are plenty of old songs that are very sexual in terms of their lyrical content without being directly disrespectful or chauvenistic, so it is possible to embrace the full range of the human experience without alienating anyone, but you are unlikely to find them in the back catalogue of Led Zeppelin, ACDC or the Red Hot Chili Peppers IMHO.

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2 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

During the golden era of rock and roll society was much more sexist, racist and homophobic than it is now, so I'm not sure why anyone would be suprised that peoples expectations have changed and they are voting with their feet and wallets.

 

That's true but large amounts of Rap tracks etc are hardly respectful to women, yet they are hugely popular. Videos etc of Rap and associated styles are full of cocky men showing off, fast cars, partying etc with girls fawning over them.... just like rock music used to be. You'd think that would be rejected....

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1 minute ago, cetera said:

 

That's true but large amounts of Rap tracks etc are hardly respectful to women, yet they are hugely popular. Videos etc of Rap and associated styles are full of cocky men showing off, fast cars, partying etc with girls fawning over them.... just like rock music used to be. You'd think that would be rejected....

And how many women and gay men are buying the product?

It's no secret that sex sells, and no secret that the largest commercial market segment for rap is mostly suburban american white teenage boys, so no real suprise there tbh.

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3 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

And how many women and gay men are buying the product?

It's no secret that sex sells, and no secret that the largest commercial market segment for rap is mostly suburban american white teenage boys, so no real suprise there tbh.

 

Regardless of 'how many women and gay men' are buying (they never bought much 'rock' music so not sure of the link to this subject?)  - rap and associated genres are to a large extent the new 'rock n roll' as they share many of the same male-oriented themes. personally I can't stand most of it but I can see the link in themes.

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5 hours ago, oldbass said:

It seems white males in particular are no longer allowed to be well....blokes if you like.

As Mr David Coverdale opined some years ago: 'Dark days for a cöcksman, dark days indeed'.

It's true, of course and it all comes down to the fundamental misapprehension held by some men that these days the only way for one to get one's leg over is to feign 'sensitivity' and to pretend to oppose 'patriarchy'. These chaps think that coming on like a feminist is the surest route to the love bower. It's all nonsense; most women are entirely open to a dash of roguish male charm; well, not the ugly ones, of course - that's why they go round wearing püssy hats. It's a way of getting noticed.

Edited by skankdelvar
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Isn't sex ( "love") and music intertwined?

I think that this must form a huge %age of the written material out there. 

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20 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

As Mr David Coverdale opined some years ago: 'Dark days for a cöcksman, dark days indeed'.

It's true, of course and it all comes down to the fundamental misapprehension held by some men that these days the only way for one to get one's leg over is to feign 'sensitivity' and to pretend to oppose 'patriarchy'. These chaps think that coming on like a feminist is the surest route to the love bower. It's all nonsense; most women are entirely open to a dash of roguish male charm; well, not the ugly ones, of course - that's why they go round wearing püssy hats. It's a way of getting noticed.

This response was an absolute rollercoaster.

S.P.

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1 hour ago, cetera said:

 

Regardless of 'how many women and gay men' are buying (they never bought much 'rock' music so not sure of the link to this subject?)  - rap and associated genres are to a large extent the new 'rock n roll' as they share many of the same male-oriented themes. personally I can't stand most of it but I can see the link in themes.

https://www.billboard.com/photos/8465835/highest-paid-musicians-money-makers

I'm failing to see the economic dominance of the MTV rappers here.

Technology has changed the music industry, and the old rich white men who make the decisions have consistently failed to understand the changing world around them and make good decisions - they might still be able to control many of the mainstream media outlets and dictate for the most part what gets shown, but that doesn't mean it is what people want, or are indeed willing to spend their money on.

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of course one of the reasons Rap might be popular is precisely because it upsets so many middle aged fuddy duddy's, as did Elvis in the mid 50's

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6 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

https://www.billboard.com/photos/8465835/highest-paid-musicians-money-makers

I'm failing to see the economic dominance of the MTV rappers here.

 

I never said anything about 'economic dominance'. All that shows is the spending power of a large demographic.
The subject is 'What (if anything) killed rock 'n' roll?'

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I do think marketing is a big part of whether bands will appeal to (mainly young) people, certain bands and their behaviour/how they`ve been marketed have really helped, Sex Pistols, Guns N Roses, Oasis spring instantly to mind. I`m not knocking them, I loved all 3 bands but I do wonder if they hadn`t behaved as they did, or if maybe they had behaved that way but it not been reported about, as to whether or not I`d have ever heard of them at all. There aren`t many young bands on the punk scene at the moment, but a few spring to mind, bands who are really, really good, yet aside from a very small scene it`s difficult to see who they`d be marketed at.

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12 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

of course one of the reasons Rap might be popular is precisely because it upsets so many middle aged fuddy duddy's, as did Elvis in the mid 50's

Sounds bout right with one big important difference. The old stuff wasn't foul, disrespectful or threatening. I've heard some rap lyrics that ought to get the perpetrators a lengthy spell inside they are so awful.

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35 minutes ago, oldbass said:

Sounds bout right with one big important difference. The old stuff wasn't foul, disrespectful or threatening. I've heard some rap lyrics that ought to get the perpetrators a lengthy spell inside they are so awful.

bad behaviour has to get more and more outrageous to get noticed (and upset parents) the Pistols Grundy TV interview seems quite tame now 

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