Avoid the scammers

[SteveMcD]

Is there a safe way to sell an instrument other than face to face cash. I get the impression PayPal protects the buyer but how do I protect myself as a seller.

[ped]

Don't send anything until the money is in your bank account, and insist on fully insured and tracked postage so you can follow it all the way.

[LewisK1975]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1479727333' post='3178717']
Don't send anything until the money is in your bank account, and insist on fully insured and tracked postage so you can follow it all the way.
[/quote]

This is pretty much it.

EDIT: and of course only deal with Basschatters!

Edited November 21, 2016 by LewisK1975

[tedmanzie]

[quote name='SteveMcD' timestamp='1479727216' post='3178715']
Is there a safe way to sell an instrument other than face to face cash. I get the impression PayPal protects the buyer but how do I protect myself as a seller.
[/quote]

I don't think you can go far wrong if you deal with people that have decent feedback on here, or decent feedback on ebay. Only issues I have ever had is with zero feedback people on ebay. I wouldn't buy or sell on gumtree or preloved unless it was a face to face cash deal. On higher priced items I always make phone contact with the seller, you can tell a lot by how someone handles a phone call. If they refuse to talk to me (and some ebayers won't) then I won't deal with them. I think Paypal is good for it's ease, although 'gift payments' are apparently unprotected. I don't really like bank transfers. A couple of hours drive to do the old 'motorway cafe transaction' can save a lot of grief over payment and postage.

[Lozz196]

And make sure you read the Paypal terms & conditions - apparently if payment is sent by Gift, or if the item is sent to a different address than stated via Paypal I think their insurance then becomes null & void.

[fleabag]

If one is selling rather than buying, PP gift payment is fine, because it gives no protection to the buyer. Selling and using the Goods & Services of PP where fees are incurred by the seller is where the buyer can do a chargeback, if they're going to scam you. And 9 out of 10, they fall on the side of the buyer in those cases.

Bank transfer is fine on BC if you have decent sales feedback / a track record. As is Paypal gift. Both require trust that the seller is genuine

You cannot insist on Bank transfer on Ebay. Its either Paypal ( with fees ) or cash only when collecting in person. This last option naturally cuts out many many potential buyers

Edited November 22, 2016 by fleabag

[ambient]

Don't use Paypal. My sister in law was scammed by a buyer on eBay a couple of years ago.

I won't sell anything expensive unless the buyer collects and pays either by cash or bank transfer. A bank transfer is immediate, so there's nothing stopping someone coming to collect, then paying you when they're happy with whatever you're sellling.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1479836910' post='3179695']
Don't use Paypal. My sister in law was scammed by a buyer on eBay a couple of years ago.

I won't sell anything expensive unless the buyer collects and pays either by cash or bank transfer. A bank transfer is immediate, so there's nothing stopping someone coming to collect, then paying you when they're happy with whatever you're selling.
[/quote]

+1

Cash is king. If it's a substantial sum don't expect people to bring it with them - that's where the transfer is more convenient.
Of course it goes without saying - if they do bring cash... they check the goods, you check the money. Gotta be a little paranoid when doing business - especially the first time you deal with somebody.

[MisterT]

PayPal's fine, been a seller for years, just follow the rules which, apart from anything else, boil down to:-

1) Always keep communication between you within the Ebay messaging system, never take it outside of that - then investigations by Ebay can rely on that rather than a 'he said, she said' situation and emails don't give them that sort of proof. Even with this, an investigation into a poor buyer can be a nightmare so don't let yourself down by thinking emails / texts between you will suffice.

2) Always keep payment within PayPal's guidelines - trying to avoid fees is going to hurt at some point, much harder than the fees themselves. Their seller protection policy has to be adhered to and it's not difficult (a bit of wallet-stinger, yes, but difficult, no). 100% with the other comment re: tracked postage - don't be afraid to charge more for postage as a lot of people ship without insurance. Use a service like Parcel2Go (there are others) where you can compare couriers prices. If the shizzle is fan-bound then you'll be thankful you chose a courier worth their salt (dpd, UPS, Royal Mail etc.).

3) As mentioned above - avoid the zero-feedback / brand new account types and put a disclaimer on your advert to say something along the lines of 'zero feedback or new accounts, contact me first or your bid will be retracted'. Everyone has to start somewhere, but the % of hassle from these buyers is way higher. Describe goods as well as you can and take good photos - not so much for scammers, but to avoid the idiots who lean on the PayPal buyer protection a bit hard at times. If you've done a good advert with nothing to hide, you're less likely to face a return and the hassle that goes with it.

That's served me well for the past 15 years on ebay.

[SH73]

I'd say a common sense approach is a good starting point.

[fleabag]

Following Paypal's rules by the letter does not guarantee success for any seller. I 've been a member of Ebay / Paypal for 13 years and still got scammed, more than once, despite doing the right thing

[ambient]

My sister in law was a long term eBay user, with hundreds of perfect sales. She got scammed by a buyer. He complained there was something wrong with whatever she sold. She refunded him and asked for her item back, he sent her an empty box, and left negative feedback.

eBay couldn't care less. It's all in favour of the buyer.

[Monkey Steve]

whenever I've used eBay to sell I've always made it very clear that if they are paying by PayPal then I will not post or meet to hand over the item until I have cleared money in my bank account, which is not the same as having the payment confirmed by PayPal.

This then typically results in the buyer travelling to meet me and hand over the cash because they want to get their hands on the instrument ASAP.

[pete.young]

Many sellers don't seem to know that payment as a gift is not free to the buyer, if that buyer is not registered with PayPal. As someone who only purchases the odd small item via paypal I am not verified, instead I use a pre-paid debit card which limits my exposure.

But, it does mean that if I have a seller who wants PayPal as a gift, not only do I have no buyer protection, but I have to pay a fee for the privilege. That's not normally something I'm prepared to do, unless it is someone who I've known for several years as an active basschat member.

There is also a risk to the seller that if the buyer has an unverified account with no funds, backed by a credit card, then there is the possibility of a chargeback due to 'cardholder not present'.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1479920663' post='3180324']
Many sellers don't seem to know that payment as a gift is not free to the buyer, if that buyer is not registered with PayPal...
[/quote]

There is a buyer's fee even if one [i]is [/i]registered with Paypal. Years ago it was free, but that was changed; I can't remember when (but then again, I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, either..! ). Paypal is fine, I find, between trustworthy folks; it can go wrong, as can any scheme, even cash (forged notes, anyone..?). One has to be wary, especially when dealing with strangers, whatever the system.
Just sayin'.

[ras52]

Yep, it now costs the sender a 1% fee to send to a "friend".

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1479913135' post='3180243']
whenever I've used eBay to sell I've always made it very clear that if they are paying by PayPal then I will not post or meet to hand over the item until I have cleared money in my bank account, which is not the same as having the payment confirmed by PayPal.

This then typically results in the buyer travelling to meet me and hand over the cash because they want to get their hands on the instrument ASAP.
[/quote]

But if you withdraw the money from PayPal and they subsequently do a chargeback, won't the money just be taken from your bank account or card registered with PayPal?

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1479913135' post='3180243']
whenever I've used eBay to sell I've always made it very clear that if they are paying by PayPal then I will not post or meet to hand over the item until I have cleared money in my bank account, which is not the same as having the payment confirmed by PayPal.

This then typically results in the buyer travelling to meet me and hand over the cash because they want to get their hands on the instrument ASAP.
[/quote]
[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1479931560' post='3180430']
Yep, it now costs the sender a 1% fee to send to a "friend".



But if you withdraw the money from PayPal and they subsequently do a chargeback, won't the money just be taken from your bank account or card registered with PayPal?
[/quote]

Yep, my brother got paid via paypal, £300, he withdrew the money but some time later it turns out the person used a stolen card or account somehow, paypal have now had to give the victim their money back (and quite rightly obviously) and they now want the money off my brother, great!

[Monkey Steve]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1479931560' post='3180430']


But if you withdraw the money from PayPal and they subsequently do a chargeback, won't the money just be taken from your bank account or card registered with PayPal?
[/quote]

Honestly don't know - like I say, it's always worked for me in getting the buyer to pay by cash

[T-Bay]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1479932747' post='3180438']



Yep, my brother got paid via paypal, £300, he withdrew the money but some time later it turns out the person used a stolen card or account somehow, paypal have now had to give the victim their money back (and quite rightly obviously) and they now want the money off my brother, great!
[/quote] He didn't do anything wrong so it's their problem. The bank should block the payment if he asks them to. If not then the online small claims court would almost certainly find in his favour if they try to take the money back.

[project_c]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1479912809' post='3180238']
My sister in law was a long term eBay user, with hundreds of perfect sales. She got scammed by a buyer. He complained there was something wrong with whatever she sold. She refunded him and asked for her item back, he sent her an empty box, and left negative feedback.

eBay couldn't care less. It's all in favour of the buyer.
[/quote]

Sorry to bring this thread back, I have a potential - if slightly time consuming - solution for this, curious if it would work in case of the 'empty box received' scam. A possible way to avoid it is to provide proof that the item you posted is genuine. You could do this by getting someone to record a video at the post office, showing you packing the item into a box or envelope, and recording the video all the way until you have the parcel receipt in your hand.

Would this be accepted as proof by Paypal? (I'm asking because I'm about to be paid via Paypal by a new user for a pedal. Not a big money transaction by any means but better to be safe than sorry).