My hands and fingers are knackered

[kevvo66]

I have a condition called havs,hand held vibration white finger,it's the loss of feeling in the tips of your fingers ,blanching ,pins and needles , I gigged all wknd and my fingers are worse than usual cramping up when I was playing ,I'm struggling too even pick simple things up ,this really could be the end of my gigging days ,suppose I could start using a pick , any suggestions people? Or I may be selling up

[NickD]

Obviously it depends what you play, but don't be afraid to go down the pick route. Once you get past the snobbery there's a huge tonal pallette available down that path. You've got nothing to lose by giving it a try. I often use a 'no pick' technique, for want of a better description. With my thumb and forefinger together as if with a pick, but striking the string with the tip of my finger. Nothing to drop, can relax or stretch the hand, and can switch easily to other styles.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

You could try getting a bowl of hot water (as hot as you can stand) and a bowl of cold water (as cold as you can get it) and put both hands in the hot till you can't stand it any longer, then put them in the cold water until you can't stand it, rinse and repeat until the hot and cold are both getting near body temp. Really gets the circulation going and the joints moving - I find it really helps with post gig/practice aches and pains. The cost of this super hydrotherapy treatment is a couple of washing up bowls from Wilkinson, and it is well proven for injury rehabilitation.

[kevvo66]

Thanks nick , and subrsonic ,got to be worth ago

Edited March 30, 2016 by kevvo66

[BassBus]

You could also try going down the Gary Willis route. Use a much lighter picking action and turn your amp up. As has been suggested, the pick route with a glove on your left hand, as Scott Devine does, even though he has a completely different condition.

[NickD]

I think the thing is not to pin yourself down.

'Do you play fixed anchor/floating thumb/double thumb/thumb & finger, classical style/pick/no-pick?'... Yeah, all of those.

As long as the right sound comes out at the end of it, something that fits for that particular tune, it doesn't matter how you do it. There are guys out there who play totally unconventionally, strings upside down and whatever... if a pleasing sound comes out of that cab... who cares. Django Reinhardt managed alright with completely knackered hands. If it's something that gives you pleasure, I'm sure you'll find a way, and it doesn't matter a jot what that way is.

Proper players play with their fingers though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4frsImhVxHs

[kevvo66]

Yes he did ,I think it happened in a fire if I remember correctly

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Well, there is a vacancy for a fiddle player on here .( sorry
You'll obviously get some good advice on here , but maybe acupuncture or seeing a physio?
Maybe your gp even? Hope things improve

[Delberthot]

I think it was John Wetton I saw with Asia using a thumb pick, which might be handy as you don't have to hold it at all

[Phil Starr]

1. Don't Panic, it may settle down, gigging all weekend knackers us all, well me anyway.

2. See a doctor, don't look for medical advice on the internet. Ask your GP for referral to a specialist, GPs won't have any special training in this area, keep on until you reach a specialist. Tell your doctors you are a professional musician even if you are only semi-pro.

3. Stop doing whatever gave you White Finger.

4. Nothing wrong with a pick. What goes on in your head is every bit as important to the music as what goes on with your fingers.

Good luck and keep on playing!

[kevvo66]

Seen a specialist ,it's through years of using heavy machinery in my job ,thanks Phil,

Edited March 30, 2016 by kevvo66

[Delberthot]

I wear wrist splints to bed every night for my carpal tunnel and it seems to be helping keep it under control. I'm not having my hands clamp up as much as they used to and the pins and needles have subsided but it took a good few months of using them before they had a noticeable effect.

Might be worth a try

[Billy Apple]

How do you know you have HAVS? Has it been diagnosed? Have you got it from work and have you sought compensation?
Numbness in the hands and fingers could also be caused by carpel tunnel and cubital tunnel syndrome. Have you asked your Doctor for a nerve conductivity test and a referral to a neurologist?

Edited March 30, 2016 by Billy Apple

[FinnDave]

I'm going through something similar, broke my right wrist badly in a motorcycle accident about 4 months ago and in the last couple of weeks, a weakened (by the accident) tendon has broken, so now I can't move the middle finger. I have played finger style only for over 30 years, but have already managed a gig and a public blues jam using a plectrum. It takes some getting used to, but it's better than quitting.

[EBS_freak]

You may or may not find this interesting reading.

http://www.thehamsters.co.uk/interviews/bassist.php

[Bilbo]

Alexander Technique helps me when I get in trouble. Makes you look at how your body is doing things and helps you find more efficient ways that reduce strain.

[BassBus]

[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1459336157' post='3015505']
I think it was John Wetton I saw with Asia using a thumb pick, which might be handy as you don't have to hold it at all
[/quote]

John Wetton is a good example. I seem to remember reading an interview with him some years ago when he said his hands were buggered. Maybe he didn't use that word. I think he has no feeling in one of his hands. Still finds a way to play though.

[julietgreen]

I have something similar - Raynaud's - and I've noticed recently a combination of possibly related causes/symptoms. In the past I have had shoulder issues (pain and immobility in the rotator cuff), tingling finger-tips and the same cramping, dystonic effect you seem to be describing. Lately I've read about impingement of the ulnar nerve (and something you can apparently do called 'flossing'!) and have considered whether these things are all tied up. I have yet to seek medical help, but will probably do so soon. I would recommend the same for you. Get them to also think about and discount musicians' focal dystonia.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1459332313' post='3015458']
You could try getting a bowl of hot water (as hot as you can stand) and a bowl of cold water (as cold as you can get it) and put both hands in the hot till you can't stand it any longer, then put them in the cold water until you can't stand it, rinse and repeat until the hot and cold are both getting near body temp. Really gets the circulation going and the joints moving - I find it really helps with post gig/practice aches and pains. The cost of this super hydrotherapy treatment is a couple of washing up bowls from Wilkinson, and it is well proven for injury rehabilitation.
[/quote]

This goes completely against what my rheumatologist told me - I have secondary Raynauds, very similar to HAVS, and was told warming cold hands quickly will make them very painful. Exercise and Ginko is what I have been prescribed and have survived this winter pretty well.

[Billy Apple]

What's with the Ginko?

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1459359504' post='3015821']
What's with the Ginko?
[/quote]
Improves circulation. As above, it was prescribed (well, I was told to use it, can't get it on prescription) by the consultant rheumatologist. Surprised me at the time but seems to have done the trick.

[visog]

Good advice so far... Here's some stuff I know helps:[list]
[*]Hydration & general good health (including upper-body exercise)
[*]Good technique (including a light touch - as mentioned before, seek out the Gary Willis lowest posible tension to sound a note exercise.)
[*]Good monitoring so you don't over-play to hear yourself
[*]Knowing your material so you don't tense up at difficult bits or moments of uncertainty
[*]Good posture
[*]A good strap/a light bass
[*]Warm-ups
[/list]
Don't always follow the above but there we go... Here's some stuff that may help - but I can't vouch for...[list]
[*]Cod liver oil
[*]Glucosamine
[*]https://powerballs.com/rehabilitation.php
[*]Lower action & lower string tension (lighter strings)
[*]Avoiding stress & tension manifesting in the hands, i.e. making a fist subconsciously or during sleep (so fall asleep with flat hands)
[/list]
Good luck and hope you get better

[Billy Apple]

I'm not sure that playing with a pick will help. I have always played with a pick and the action and movement can be much more localised, especially due to holding the pick between thumb and forefinger, which in turn leads to cramp. I would have thought playing with fingers would even the load across the hand.

Have you thought about taking it easy and not gigging all weekend? You could also alternate songs between pick and finger style.

[kevvo66]

Thanks people for all the advice much appreciated as always ,earlier in the thread billy Apple asked if it had been diagnosed yes it as yes I got payed compensation through negligence , I used be a keen fly tyer also anyone who know their fly tying I used to be able too tye flies down to size 26 hook which is micro gnat size now I struggle with anything smaller than a size 16 hook

[EMG456]

As we get older, our worn out bodies tend to have less 'headroom' to push beyond our normal levels of effort.

Happened to me at the weekend. A combination of slightly higher action than I normally use on a recently restored bass, slightly dead strings and the excitement of playing with a good drummer (we are usually a three piece acoustic folky outfit) meant I overcooked it about two thirds of the way through the night. My right hand middle finger decided to snap shut and not come back again. Finished the song using my thumb. Then lots of hydration, up the volume on the amp and lay back in terms of both strength of hits and general busyness of playing got me back on track within a couple of songs.

Do not be afraid of lighter strings/ lighter touch- contrary to popular misconceptions, your tone will be every bit as strong as before and possibly even more alive.

Also try experimenting with strap height if you are playing standing up. The angles we hold our limbs at can have quite an effect on the circulation and a little adjustment could have a big impact.

Hope you find a way.