The flow of a setlist

[FuNkShUi]

I've been spending quite some time these last couple of days arranging our setlist.
I've been trying to make it have a kind of natural flow.
Aware that you need to hit highs and then pull back , then build up again. That's what she said etc etc
I'm also trying to group songs into 3s or 4s, and create segways to move between each, then have planned pauses at the end of these "groupings". To try to keep the momentum going, and i think it just looks more professional.
So i'm also trying to group songs that are in keys that match etc.
So my question to you fine people....Too much??
Anyone else think about it to this degree?

[chaypup]

Yep definitely - a well worked set list makes the difference between an ok night and a great one - ask any DJ.

Sometimes you have to be flexible too, read the crowd and change things on the fly if need be.

[FuNkShUi]

Yeh there's always room to edit on the fly.
We usually have 4 or 5 "on the side" that we can swap in, if for example a certain genre is going over better

[Len_derby]

[quote name='chaypup' timestamp='1455045533' post='2975417']
Yep definitely - a well worked set list makes the difference between an ok night and a great one - ask any DJ.

Sometimes you have to be flexible too, read the crowd and change things on the fly if need be.
[/quote]

Agreed. I always insist on one.
Apart from noodling between songs there's nothing more unprofessional, to me, than the 'what shall we play next? ' on stage conversation.

[taunton-hobbit]

I used to do a lot of sound (dj)...always put a rough pile of stuff together before the show, which could be juggled, depending on the audience.
Personally, I think that anyone who just 'throws' stuff at punters deserves all they get - including no rebooks...............

[FuNkShUi]

We didn't ever just make it up on the fly.

But I felt there was no clear structure to it.

Now, i have written a few bars of music to go between some songs, organised a few where the band will come in off a vocal cue. A few will be straight count and in etc

I agree, i hate it when it seems a band is having a conversation about what to play next after every song

[Dad3353]

We've always done this, as have most of the previous formations in which I've played. Our present criteria are guided more, now, by my physical (lack of...) abilities, so as to give me much-needed respite from the more up-tempo numbers, but the 'flow' as you call it, is in my view, a very important factor in the success of any set. Always worth working on, but not to over-think, of course. If drop tunings are involved, grouping to keep tune up/down sessions to a minimum; otherwise try to keep the key changes flowing (don't follow a song in 'A' with another in 'A' etc...). I thought all bands did this.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Dad3353

[sprocketflup]

A good band will play their audience as much as they play their instruments IMO

Also IMO, all the ideas you've had for arranging your songs are good, except the one about trying to group songs with matching or similar keys. A key change can be a great way to steer a flow of songs, and can markedly show the transition from one song to the next. Id try not to have too many in a row in the same key if I could ( tho if I'm honest, probably wouldn't put that much thought into it)

my own bands set lists seem determined by how many changes of instrument the guitarist has to make, and me too. Ive had sets where I'm changing every song. Looks daft on stage that IMO. Thankfully this years set 1 is mostly played on the fretless

[taunton-hobbit]

I did some gigs with Freddie Mac and the Boss Sound.....his band used the gap between numbers to play the riff from 'sock it to 'em JB' - Freddie used the riff to intro the next song - this was non-stop for an hour - simply the best band I ever worked with (and I've worked with a few).

[mrtcat]

Yep, set list flow is very important and makes the difference between a band and a show. Our MD is great at this and we regularly do 10 song medleys etc that keep a dance floor rammed.

[scalpy]

Each band I play for has a different approach but I've had to learn a few tricks for the one I organise set lists for. It's a function band, so we do the standards and do a few medleys and mash ups, and stuff in unexpected genres to keep things interested. As well as keys and tempos being mixed up we try and get a good balance between female and male leads and whether it's a guitar driven song or horns. My soap box subject is the amount of time it takes to go from one number to the next, I have a rule of thumb that we start the next number before the audience have finished clapping the last. However, we were knackering audiences out for a while so the first quarter of the set (of 2 hours) is mid tempo and not too in-yer-face. Once they've had a drink and we've got them rolling we cane it to the end!

[Phil Starr]

Yes, plan the flow of your sets and groups of three of four are about right especially if people are dancing. Most people seem to need a rest after about 10-12 mins so three songs with no gaps will keep them on the floor. Any gap longer than a few seconds gets them looking for their drink or starting up a conversation/checking their phone so gaps are a killer. I like to plan around what I think the audience ought to be doing and how to draw them in.

[bigjohn]

There are gigging bands that don't write setlists?

[ambient]

[quote name='bigjohn' timestamp='1455063573' post='2975654']
There are gigging bands that don't write setlists?
[/quote]

My regular jazz band gig, the guy just calls out the tunes as and when, depending on how the gig is going.

There was a gig that I used to do a few years ago. It was a reading gig for a function band. The singer had a pad of tunes, each one numbered. She knew what number every song in her repertoire was, so she'd call out "number 39" for instance, knowing what it'd be. She'd call out a song depending on how the gig was going. If people were up and dancing, then she'd call another dance type song, if it looked like they were getting tired then it'd be something slower. It worked well for her.

JK from Jamiroquai is renowned for that too, the band have to be prepared to play whatever JK feels like playing. Must be a nightmare .

[blue]

[quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1455046129' post='2975426']


Agreed. I always insist on one.
Apart from noodling between songs there's nothing more unprofessional, to me, than the 'what shall we play next? ' on stage conversation.
[/quote]

I agree, there's no argument or reason not to follow a set list.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1455070378' post='2975664']

JK from Jamiroquai is renowned for that too, the band have to be prepared to play whatever JK feels like playing. Must be a nightmare .
[/quote]

Probably more like what he doesn't feel like playing.

Blue

[FuNkShUi]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1455046575' post='2975435']
We've always done this, as have most of the previous formations in which I've played. Our present criteria are guided more, now, by my physical (lack of...) abilities, so as to give me much-needed respite from the more up-tempo numbers, but the 'flow' as you call it, is in my view, a very important factor in the success of any set. Always worth working on, but not to over-think, of course. If drop tunings are involved, grouping to keep tune up/down sessions to a minimum; otherwise try to keep the key changes flowing (don't follow a song in 'A' with another in 'A' etc...). I thought all bands did this.
[/quote]

I don't suggest following a song in A, with another in A.
I meant, for example, a song finishes on B, so I'll try to put the next song in the list starting in C maybe.
That way a small chromatic run, and we're straight into it.
Totally agree that if i grouped all the songs in A it might start sounding a bit tedious. Although, i wonder if the general public who don't play music themselves would even notice?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1455091157' post='2975695']... I wonder if the general public who don't play music themselves would even notice?
[/quote]

When I was playing in variety orchestras, animating the local dance from 9 till 2, the numbers were usually grouped by type of dance, so we'd have, for example, 4 or 5 rock/twist songs, then some waltzes, followed by a couple of polkas, and a tango or two and a series of slows... Once the couples are up and waltzing, it wouldn't do to break those formations; give 'em a chance to enjoy whatever style they've chosen to dance to. Are these musicians..? No, not at all, but they have quite considerable experience in dancing and enjoying their evening. Similarly for repeated keys; they may not know [i]why [/i]it feels 'odd', but they certainly do notice such details, and varying tonalities does help with giving them a smooth ride. Not all audiences or styles of event have the same 'rules',or format, so it may be appropriate in other circumstances, though, and a 'lead-in' from one song to another is a great touch to add.
Just sayin'.

[chris_b]

A set list should have dynamics. Always start with a couple of up tempo numbers and end the same way and flow in the middle.

By organising the set before hand you don't end up with embarrassing gaps between numbers while a discussion takes place about what to do next, 3 minor numbers, 4 shuffles or 3 slow numbers one after the other, excessive instrument swapping or an argument about the next number.

If you have a band leader who can just pick the best set out of thin air (lucky you) you don't need a written set list. I've never seen anyone that good, so I always ask for a written set list.

[elephantgrey]

For those that have introductions/banter between songs, do you find this works better between every song, or should songs be grouped together in pairs (radio style)?

[Lozz196]

The other thing is encores - plan them. Too often I`ve seen bands get called for encores and the songs have been no way as good as their set. Leave a couple of crackers for the encore, if you`ve not got the audience by the end of your set it`s unlikely you`ll get them with another 2, but if they`re clamouring for more, give `em a treat, not a let-down.

[chris_b]

+1

Plan the encores. Ask the promoter or landlord what the curfew time is. It kills the mood if you're having to ask over the PA if you can do one more.

If it's going well, finish the set slightly early so you can fit at least 2 numbers into the encore.

[BigRedX]

Come on full pelt, all guns blazing and carry on like that until the end of the set. Pause briefly only to tell the audience what the band is called and that they can buy merch off us after the gig.

[FuNkShUi]

Yeh we always have 2 written down on the set as encores incase we are asked.

[ambient]

I think a set list is good if you know what your audience is.

The jazz band that I mentioned earlier, he calls songs depending on what the audience is liking. Same as the singer that I played for.

The Jazz band has quite a few residencies. With these gigs you never know what crowd you're gonna get in.