blue Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I haven't read all the posts, however I will say this. I'm a bar band guy, my band plays 75-80 gigs a year including fairs and fests in the summer. Personally, i think $400.00 is the bottom line to get any decent band. I see a huge error here. Here's an example , if I get a call about a gig, he , my standard response is ; "You have to call Jim ( our guitarist), he handles bookings." You never want more than one band member talking to clients especially about fees. I would either back out of the gig or apologize for quote the guitarist gave and stick to the $400.00. Like I say guys, and I catch hell from some of you about this. "It's A Business" Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roceci Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Never knew you were a bar band guy Blue Spot on tho with everything there, particularly having one person talk $$ & the fact that it's a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 [quote name='roceci' timestamp='1453318526' post='2958441'] Never knew you were a bar band guy Blue [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Don't think you're being unreasonable. But if the others want to do it, say you're happy for them to get in a dep' for you. No mileage in going through the arguments about timing, lights, etc, etc. Just side-step the job if you're not happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) I hired a band I used to play in for a family members wedding, still paid them the full rate for the job. The birthday guy is being is being a bit cheeky assuming his mates will give him a discount IMO and even more so assuming you will. I'd just say you want your normal whack and let the other guys sub you from their cut if they are so dead keen on doing it on the cheap. Edited January 20, 2016 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Is the guy who is 40 , a nice bloke ...or a tw@t?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I will probably be in a minority of one here but I, and I'm sure my two band mates are the same think about the gig before the money. If it's a party it will probably be a good night so we would be happy with £50 each. We've done loads of party's for friends of friends on the cheap. I've spent 15 years playing in boring clubs where I only did it for the money. Nowadays I'd happily play for a low fee as long as I enjoy it and I see people enjoying themselves to our music. Life is short so I want to play as many good gigs as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) [quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1453320874' post='2958482'] I will probably be in a minority of one here but I, and I'm sure my two band mates are the same think about the gig before the money. If it's a party it will probably be a good night so we would be happy with £50 each. We've done loads of party's for friends of friends on the cheap. I've spent 15 years playing in boring clubs where I only did it for the money. Nowadays I'd happily play for a low fee as long as I enjoy it and I see people enjoying themselves to our music. Life is short so I want to play as many good gigs as possible. [/quote] Absolutely agree with this, we have done lots of gigs for free in the past for charity, for events where we knew it would be a good gig and I would always put playing a great gig for free, above a highly paid, bad gig. However, my pricing structure still stands for me and my band, based on my experiences. So unless this was going to be the party of the century, with money on the door going to charity and we had a bit of food and drink to sweeten the deal, my 'mate' can jog on if he thinks he's getting us for free! Also, it sounds like with the OP's band, the punter got through to 'that guy' in the band that will play in a dustbin for free if offered. The guy who 'just wants to play'. We've got one in our band. There is definitely a sense of romance and 'doing it for the music' about this attitude, however we've played some terrible, terrible gigs in the past when we've entertained this viewpoint, gigs where we've all agreed we've done ourselves and the band no favours at all, and come home with hardly anything to show for it. Our guy has no family, so doesn't really understand how precious time actually is for the rest of us, especially at a weekend. When your sacrificing that to drive 80 miles to play for £30 each, to an audience of 3 people, who'd rather you weren't there, it can be really demotivating as a musician I find. If I'm going to play music I want to enjoy the experience, not think "that was a load of sh**" If it's going to be sh**, then I better be being paid properly! 😊 Edited January 20, 2016 by cameltoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 [quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1453320874' post='2958482'] I will probably be in a minority of one here but I, and I'm sure my two band mates are the same think about the gig before the money. If it's a party it will probably be a good night so we would be happy with £50 each. We've done loads of party's for friends of friends on the cheap. I've spent 15 years playing in boring clubs where I only did it for the money. Nowadays I'd happily play for a low fee as long as I enjoy it and I see people enjoying themselves to our music. Life is short so I want to play as many good gigs as possible. [/quote] I agree as well. Much as I think a band should [b]generally[/b] insist on being paid the going rate, there is absolutely nothing with doing a favour for a friend of one of the band. A few months ago a friend asked if we could play at her wedding. I knew she was on a budget (the wedding reception was in a pub to save costs, etc) so I said I would see what we could do on price. The band had a chat and agreed to do it for half our normal pub fee. I offered to forego my share, but being decent guys the rest of the band wouldn’t hear of it. I did about 40 gigs last year – a shortfall of £30 from one gig to help out a friend is neither here nor there to be honest. I remember similar occasion several years ago with another band, when a good friend of all of ours was in a similar position. He asked how much it would cost for us to play his wedding, there were a few looks and shrugs between the band and the guitarist just said ‘well nothing is a round figure’! it ended up being a great night and we helped out a mate. What goes around comes around and when I got married four years ago I had five well-known local bands play half hour sets at the wedding party. The only ones who got paid were the nominal headlining (3 piece) band and I had to literally force them to take £20 each at the end of the night to pay for their taxis home. The guitar player said that he already had a lift home and wasn’t getting a taxi and insisted that I took the £20 back. I suppose it depends on your outlook on life… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@23 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1453315333' post='2958399'] We discussed mate's rates as a band and the best that might be achieved is if the mate in the band waived his fee. [/quote] That's how we always do it too. I saw a thing on Facebook the other day about band pricing; it went something like 'ask four plumbers what they'd charge to work between 7pm and midnight on Saturday, whatever they quote, my band will charge a half of...' Pubs are always cheaper than one off private dos, as mentioned, no lights, ironed shirts or shined shoes, 2 x 45s and for us, on the understanding that we get a fairly regular gig at that venue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1453327966' post='2958574'] I suppose it depends on your outlook on life… [/quote] Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 This is one of the many benefits of playing for no fee at all. We (The Daub'z...) have free choice as to where and when we'll play, and only go out if it's going to be interesting for us. It could be a buddy's garden party (we've played some corkers...), a charity affair (so-so, can be good, can be a flop, for us...), local fêtes or whatever. We don't get any squabbles over share-outs. On the not-so-rare occasions where we get slipped an envelope despite our 'no fee' policy, we split it between those out of work in the band, or put it into a kitty for an end-of-year resto with all the families. I know this won't work for everyone, least of all on a regular basis, but an occasional Good Deed doesn't hurt, unless one is really dependant on that money, in which case I'd question the wisdom of having chosen music as a career. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I was in a band once where one of the singers did a mates rate for a wedding. Fast forward to a week before the gig and the lead singer and drummer 'can't make the gig', I can't remember why, it's not really important. Getting a lead singer and a drummer in to dep with a few days notice for a wedding is 'expensive'. Although probably not as expensive as getting sued for the cost of another band to take your place... We didn't do charity functions or mates rates weddings or functions again after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I think the person who's friend it is should waive their fee for the gig and the others should get their normal rate. This way, the customer gets their discount and the other band members get paid. In my opinion, if you didn't want to play for free for a mate of yours then he can't be a very good mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1453334016' post='2958634'] I think the person who's friend it is should waive their fee for the gig and the others should get their normal rate. This way, the customer gets their discount and the other band members get paid. In my opinion, if you didn't want to play for free for a mate of yours then he can't be a very good mate. [/quote] You beat me to it, I was going to say, "Surely it depends on how good a mate it is?". With our ceilidh (Barn Dance) band we generally work on our standard fee. If a member or members decide to waive the fee for a mate or a charity, then we subtract that from what we ask the customer. For some events with common interest then we can end up doing for free, or just charge for the caller (Not technically part of the band). We recently did a dance in the village and raised £750 for an MS charity. We all waived our fee as the sousaphone players wife has MS. If we hadn't done it for nothing then we'd only have raised £350. Personally I'm quite happy that the whole band fee (normally £400-ish) went to the charity instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) [quote name='roceci' timestamp='1453318526' post='2958441'] Never knew you were a bar band guy Blue Spot on tho with everything there, particularly having one person talk $$ & the fact that it's a business. [/quote] Thanks Yeah, I'm a 4 hour (two 10 minute break) bar/club guy. Bars and clubs are my bands core business. However, being based in "The City of Festivals" Milwaukee WI we get our share of good festival and fair business in the Summer months. Yeah it's a business, a label not popular with all bass chat members. I've never been in this for creativity or art. I have bills to pay. Blue Edited January 21, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453332592' post='2958623'] This is one of the many benefits of playing for no fee at all. We (The Daub'z...) have free choice as to where and when we'll play, and only go out if it's going to be interesting for us. It could be a buddy's garden party (we've played some corkers...), a charity affair (so-so, can be good, can be a flop, for us...), local fêtes or whatever. We don't get any squabbles over share-outs. On the not-so-rare occasions where we get slipped an envelope despite our 'no fee' policy, we split it between those out of work in the band, or put it into a kitty for an end-of-year resto with all the families. I know this won't work for everyone, least of all on a regular basis, but an occasional Good Deed doesn't hurt, unless one is really dependant on that money, in which case I'd question the wisdom of having chosen music as a career. Just sayin'.[/quote] No offense but playing for free does not seem like a benefit to me. So your band gives away all of time and effort you've invested in learning a craft, travel expense, and providing sound and lights, tear down and set up? If yes,if I ever need a band I'm calling you. Blue Edited January 21, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453332592' post='2958623'] Good Deed doesn't hurt, unless one is really dependant on that money, in which case I'd question the wisdom of having chosen music as a career. Just sayin'.[/quote] Because it's how some people chose to live their lives. I play bass guitar and sing for a living now and I have never been happier, living the dream As they say. I only wish I had done this before I gave 28 years of my life working for the man, making someone else rich. Blue Edited January 21, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1453320874' post='2958482'] I've spent 15 years playing in boring clubs where I only did it for the money. Nowadays I'd happily play for a low fee as long as I enjoy it and I see people enjoying themselves to our music. Life is short so I want to play as many good gigs as possible.[/quote] I play clubs and bars for living, A gig is gig. I've never played a boring gig in my life. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1453341256' post='2958644'] You beat me to it, I was going to say, "Surely it depends on how good a mate it is?". With our ceilidh (Barn Dance) band we generally work on our standard fee. If a member or members decide to waive the fee for a mate or a charity, then we subtract that from what we ask the customer. For some events with common interest then we can end up doing for free, or just charge for the caller (Not technically part of the band). We recently did a dance in the village and raised £750 for an MS charity. We all waived our fee as the sousaphone players wife has MS. If we hadn't done it for nothing then we'd only have raised £350. Personally I'm quite happy that the whole band fee (normally £400-ish) went to the charity instead. [/quote] This approach is best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxblues Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Some great responses guys. It isn't about the cash per se, rather it is about someone taking the pee, this guy is notoriously tight and I suspect we will do this for £200 and find the disco on £350. Charity gigs I have always done, no problem, and I did a mates party recently with my other band and me and the drummer who were mates with him took no fee but the others had their full rate. I will do it if the others want to, is the bottom line, I just don't like punters undervaluing the band, and as you say, everyone at that gig will end up knowing we charged £200, so the problem compounds. anyway, great comments guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='vmaxblues' timestamp='1453361592' post='2958679'] Some great responses guys. It isn't about the cash per se, rather it is about someone taking the pee, this guy is notoriously tight and I suspect we will do this for £200 and find the disco on £350. Charity gigs I have always done, no problem, and I did a mates party recently with my other band and me and the drummer who were mates with him took no fee but the others had their full rate. I will do it if the others want to, is the bottom line, I just don't like punters undervaluing the band, and as you say, everyone at that gig will end up knowing we charged £200, so the problem compounds. anyway, great comments guys! [/quote] That's something completely different. Where I have done gigs for free it has been for a genuine charity or where I'm doing a favour for a friend who I know would do the same for me if the boot was on the other foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 All gig booking is done through one of the band who applies the rates without the baggage of 'as its him, I said we'd do it for..' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roceci Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1453342646' post='2958646'] Bars and clubs are my bands core business. However, being based in "The City of Festivals" Milwaukee WI we get our share of good festival and fair business in the Summer months. [/quote] What made Milwaukee famous made a Blueser of me... I'll get me coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I believe the point is that they didn't discuss it...the 'friend' just assumed it would be ok... I'd never offer a price if I wasn't sure the guys would go for it..been there and you just look stupid. I'd put the deal to the guys and asked them what they thought..and whatever we agreed would be the official line. No one should expect a stranger to play for a lesser sum unless asked and confirmed. Any booker will know this just leads to trouble so you get the fees sorted...and always aim higher, never lower. That said, if a cause was very close to your heart, you'd discuss that as well..but you can spend the whole summer doing charities and mate's rates parties - and get known as a cheap band-... so best to put a limit on it. These are one of the first things to be discussed..where we play, what we play and how much for what..? If you are not happy with the way it is going...you need to deal with it or suck it up. Get a dep, be unavailable or do it under protest and make your point that this is a ONE-OFF... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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