colgraff Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Having very recently returned to pro playing, a couple of people have asked me what they need to turn professional. In my case, all that was needed was a total lack of employability in any other capacity combined with some bass ability and a half decent voice. What do others think important? Obviously, there are several different ways a pro bassist could be employed, so it might be worth prefacing your answer with the context in which you are thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Luck - Being in the right place at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) I would assume that the covers / function / wedding band thing is the easiest route to earn a living from playing bass? maybe cruise work or orchestra pit work too? add in a bit of teaching? So key skills along with the obvious being a good player would be, backing vocals, able to read, solid theory for transposing on the fly etc. and most importantly absolutely no ego about what you're prepared to play... do whatever you're told if the price is right. Playing guitar when needed etc would also be a useful skill. From what I read on here it would seem that versatility is the key... money coming in from as many different places as possible so you're not reliant on one gig. I am far to precious about being in control of what I'm playing, so I'd never have what it takes to earn a living from playing bass. Edited January 12, 2016 by CamdenRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 There is no answer without a specific job in mind, is Adam Clayton a professional musician? Could he sight read a 3 hour show on Broadway TONIGHT!? I don't know maybe he could but you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Versatility. You need to have an approach where you can do whatever you're asked. So if you're asked to sight read a part you can, if you're asked to play off a chord chart you can etc, etc. Most players have a portfolio of skills, so teaching, playing, writing etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I'd imagine there are "Pros" that couldn't be Pro and "Amateurs" that could be Pro. If you know what i'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Number6' timestamp='1452595922' post='2951378'] I'd imagine there are "Pros" that couldn't be Pro and "Amateurs" that could be Pro. If you know what i'm saying. [/quote] Yup being a pro just means getting paid. Being a [i]good[/i] pro, probably means you get paid more, and more often Edited January 12, 2016 by MacDaddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1452596538' post='2951389'] Yup being a pro just means getting paid. [/quote] Well I get paid for playing the Dog & Duck, but it would never occur to me to describe myself as a 'Pro'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1452596604' post='2951390'] Well I get paid for playing the Dog & Duck, but it would never occur to me to describe myself as a 'Pro'. [/quote] Or even a good pro [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Hell, I don't even rate as a good amateur! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 You need to be easy to work with..so your playing needs to be there, and so does your ability to organise and adhere to diary issues, plus you should not cause any issues once on the job. You want call backs. If you are deficient in any of then above, your playing needs to be up, up and up a few notches so they will put up with you because you are so bloody talented... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) I'm only a part time gigging functions band player but I do have friends who make a living from playing guitar and making music. We discuss the joys of being a musician and lot, and also discuss all of the people we have met over the years and how careers are developed. The main things that seem to be key to making a living as a musician based on the people we know are: 1. Be flexible - Play every style and be willing to play anything if the job asks for it, never say 'thats not my thing' 2. Have reliable solid gear - You don't need 4k worth of Fodera or PRS but know how to use your gear and keep it in good working order. 3. Have the 'right gear' - This may be a contentious issue for some, but my best friend is a session guitarist as well as writing and scoring etc. and his main guitar that he defaults to for work is a Parker Fly Deluxe. He has Gibsons, Fenders, Ibanez, MusicMan and many more, but loves using the Parker for a lot of work because it sounds so clean for recording. He has had issue whereby engineers and clients have pulled faces when he turns up with the Parker before they even hear it and plug it. Rather than argue, he has to read the room and pull out a Strat/Les Paul/Tele to do the job to keep them happy. 4. Be a decent friendly human being - This is the big one, all of the 'pro' people I have met are nice friendly people with a good sense of humor. They get work because they get on with people and are easy to work with. They admit a lot of the time they are not the best players but they work hard, listen to comments and criticism and know how to get the right sound. They get lots of work through contacts and referrals which wouldn't happen if they were di*ckheads. I'm sure there are more, reading helps for some areas of work, a good jazz background helps in other circles but the above are general points. Edited January 12, 2016 by NJE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Anyone who's main source of income derives from their playing ,regardless of their actual ability, is a professional bass player. Someone on here came up with a good definition quite recently along the lines of anyone who earns more money from music than they have spent on their equipment can be described as professional. I reckon there are three main routes to becoming a professional. 1. Work really hard,become extremely proficient, gain a reputation for flexibility & reliability so that there is a high demand for your skills. 2. Start your own band, work hard, gain an audience get a few lucky breaks. 3. Be in the right place at the right time, join someone else's successful or soon to be successful band. I reckon all the above apply to the professional function band specialist as much as the all conquering stadium filling rock star. Edited January 12, 2016 by Cato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='Cato' timestamp='1452599556' post='2951423'] Someone on here came up with a good definition quite recently along the lines of [b]anyone who earns more money from music than they have spent on their equipment[/b] can be described as professional. [/quote] That is absolutely definitely not me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I regard myself as semi-pro - professional approach, but not my (whole) living. This is how I describe my 'job role' on my LinkedIn page:[list] [*]Selecting and maintaining top quality equipment [*]Keeping my skills up to date [*]Actively seeking out musical opportunities [*]Communication with the client [*]Preparing thoroughly for the engagement [*]Punctuality and courtesy [*]Contributing to safety in the workplace [*]Interaction with the other musicians [*]Playing appropriately for the song, the engagement, and the client [*]Dressing suitably, both on and off the stage [*]Acting as though the client's reputation were my own [/list] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 If you're a semi-pro, does that mean that you earn half as much as you've spent on your equipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 So if you don't work for a living and did a £150 wedding gig with a Sue Ryder P bass and a Di box you would be a pro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 If you can get a mortgage on your books as a musician, that must count.. But by the same token, there is pro and Pro.. and the 3 piece that charge top dollar in pubs because that is their 'living' doesn't really cut it, YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 This thread will quickly get bogged down in the semantic definition of "professional". However, answering the question in the spirit in which it was asked: Reliability and versatility. Without those you will be hard pushed to make it work as a career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1452604856' post='2951495'] So if you don't work for a living and did a £150 wedding gig with a Sue Ryder P bass and a Di box you would be a pro! [/quote] If it was their only source of income & had regular bookings, then that's probably a yes. Simple definition of "Pro" is it is your profession. A job that you can do well enough to earn a living from it. Me & my wife can make rather excellent cakes, but we're not pros. The cake shop down the town that churns out poorly finished cakes on the other hand, is a pro. Being a professional doesn't always mean "good"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1452605012' post='2951500'] If you can get a mortgage on your books as a musician, that must count.. But by the same token, there is pro and Pro.. and the 3 piece that charge top dollar in pubs because that is their 'living' doesn't really cut it, YMMV [/quote] If those three guys are getting asked back often enough to be able to charge full price and they are paying tax on their income plus running a van, pat testing, insurance etc etc rather than cash in hand and it is their main source of income with books to prove they are professional musicians wether you like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1452605794' post='2951514'] If those three guys are getting asked back often enough to be able to charge full price and they are paying tax on their income plus running a van, pat testing, insurance etc etc rather than cash in hand and it is their main source of income with books to prove they are professional musicians wether you like it or not. [/quote] It may be debatable whether they do any of those things but they do chase the money and I'm aware of them blowing out agents and booking direct, but hey... there you go. My main point is that they charge what they charge and try to justify it but claiming it is their 'living' I don't think they are very good at all - but again, who cares about that, but rebookings are their problem as you don't see them around too often so the pubs are only 'conned' once. They have tried to get around this by running 3-4 bands off the same line-up..but again they don't seem to hang around too long. So no, doesn't sound very professional at all to me... and I know or a few 'proper' agents who have pursued them for commission and then blacklisted them...although this mighty mean the agents have just mentioned it to other agents. Edited January 12, 2016 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Go to school, learn how to be self-employed, learn how to run a business. Much like going to see a tutor to learn how to play bass, you learn so much more from 1-2-1 time with people who build businesses for a living. Yes, it may end up costing you, but hey, that's what expenses are for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Oh yeah, and realise that there's way more to 'your job' than just playing bass. Don't pigeon hole yourself and see what else you can do. Remember, as much as you'd love to do this all for free, you are here to make money now, even if it is just enough to pay the bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 People keep mentioning top quality equipment. Off the top of my head, 4 of my tutors at uni were most definitely pro, they played Fenders, musicman, cort and aria basses. It's how you play what you play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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