Fenders are rubbish......But

[bigjohn]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1442830965' post='2869722']
I don't know if modern basses following the fender shapes will become collectable... todays vintage Fenders will still be around and by then will be even older and pricier... despite which instruments are actually better.
[/quote]

Better for what though?

Part of the Fender thing is that you know what you're getting, as does the fella running the desk. The rest is subjective.

[bigjohn]

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1442767846' post='2869320']

Fixed
[/quote]

You say tomayto.

[Number6]

How does the Gordons Gin advert with Phillip Glenister go.....oh yeah

"Overbearing aromas of pretentious rubbish"

😉

[wateroftyne]

Re: resale - I think any bass you buy used - provided you pay the going rate - will hold its value. That's not specific to Fender.

Of course when it becomes vintage, the game changes entirely.

[Skybone]

I thought I was a Fender fan, until I owned a Ric for a few years, then had to sell it and get something else. I bought a Fender Jazz. After having it for about a year, I still couldn't get on with it, playing it less & less. Bought myself a RickenFaker, sold the Jazz and now I'm a happy bunny again.

In retrospect, I should have bought a Precision to replace the Ric, but there weren't very many P/J's around that caught my fancy (yes, I like twin pickup basses). I do have a G&L L2000 Tribute, with a P style neck that is nice to play, but doesn't have the "vibe" of my 'Faker's.

[Cairobill]

Yes - I realised as I was posting that I never buy new so I deleted my comment


[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1442831977' post='2869738']
Re: resale - I think any bass you buy used - provided you pay the going rate - will hold its value. That's not specific to Fender.

Of course when it becomes vintage, the game changes entirely.
[/quote]

[JTUK]

BTW... I use Fender's 'clones'... but they are very good 'clones' so the core sound is there and some...!!
I don't like to use the word steroids as that is not something..if I understand the defintion...that I think is useful
in general and particuarly to me,

I've had the same luthier make me a custom and modern bass but I don't find it versatile enough these days.
for some reason..and I do sympathise that most fuddly duddy bookers/band leaders can't be offended by a
Fender or one that they think is a Fender.
It is what it is... but the issue that will crop up is one where it goes against their preconceptions...be that, style of playing.
SOUND or visual. An old blueser doesn't want to see or hear a Smith..as much as we might want to tell them they might..

I'm looking round for a new Jazz...and I'll start at a Am Deluxe J5 if I can find the spec and it plays/sounds well enough.
There will be no change out of £1k... for good or bad, and double that if I have one commissioned...

It needs to sit along side my other basses and it is going to have to be very good to be able to do that.
I don't actually HAVE to have one tho...as 2 giggers should be enough.

Edited September 21, 2015 by JTUK

[tauzero]

[quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1442746974' post='2869135']
One thing I've always thought though, is that EVERY other electric bass is, to some degree, a copy of the precision.
[/quote]

Which itself, of course, is a copy of the double bass.

[tauzero]

[quote name='SimonEdward' timestamp='1442761384' post='2869269']
Nope. Don't like the sound of my Alembic, but love my JD's sound (which it 'emulates'?? B** S***). My MM Sterling sounds different to both of these.
[/quote]

At your next gig, play all three (not at the same time, obviously), then survey the audience afterwards to see if any of them noticed any difference in the sound.

[discreet]

[quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1442746974' post='2869135']
... EVERY other electric bass is, to some degree, a copy of the Precision.
[/quote]
[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1442833179' post='2869760']
Which itself, of course, is a copy of the double bass.
[/quote]

That's just what the Precision Bass is not. Leo designed the Precision to be an alternative to the huge bulk of 'the dog house' that was portable, and what's more could be heard (as it could be amplified to any level) as acoustic double bass players were getting lost volume-wise against the proliferation of drum kits, big brass sections and electric guitars that were becoming prevalent at that time. The reason it was called 'Precision' is that it had frets, where the DB did not, and so could be played more accurately - and in tune.

Edited September 21, 2015 by discreet

[Nicko]

I play a Fender P. Never wanted one originally, but borrowed a squire when in need at a rehearsal. I loved it and basically thought "I gotta get me one of these" haven't looked back. I haven't played a huge number of other basses, and why would I if the P does everything I want? I don't understand this peering down the nose at Fender. If you like something else, fine.

[BigRedX]

I think a lot of it is down to what you as a player are used to. I would hazard a guess that most people here started off with something vaguely P or J-bass like, and if you did and spent some time getting used to it so a "real" Fender will feel much the same but hopefully better.

In my case I spent 25 years playing basses that owed little to Leo's designs other than they were stringed instruments for playing low notes on, that by the time I came to own my first Fender-type bass (a Squier VMJ fretless) it just felt so wrong that I simply couldn't get on with it. Added to the fact that it was (for me) less suitable in almost every way than the £70 home defretted acrylic Wesley bass it was supposed to replace - it didn't sound as good, it didn't play as well and IMO it didn't look as good - that's it's unsurprising that I sold it on fairly quickly (and eventually found a Pedulla Buzz that did do all the things that I wanted). I don't think that there was anything wrong with the particular J-bass I had. AFAIK the current owner of it is still mighty pleased with it, it just didn't suit me in almost every way.

Also until I started hanging out on internet bass forums I never realised that there was supposed to be anything intrinsically superior about Fender basses. When I was getting into music in the early 70s, the bass players in my favourite bands nearly all played Rickenbackers and Gibsons, so I thought you chose a bass brand in much the same way as a guitarist would chose a Les Paul or a Strat - they were all quality instruments and you picked the one that you liked best for sounds, playability and looks. Also I don't think it helped to someone who gre up on 70s glam and punk that the Fender designs looked so dull and anonymous.

That's not to say I wouldn't ever rule out owning another Fender. I have a hankering for a Bass VI, and if Fender were to make a long-scale 5-string version of the Starcaster or Coronado bass I'd most certainly want to try it out. However a P or a J? Not for me.

[tauzero]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1442833971' post='2869773']
That's just what the Precision Bass is not. Leo designed the Precision to be an alternative to the huge bulk of 'the dog house' that was portable, and what's more could be heard (as it could be amplified to any level) as acoustic double bass players were getting lost volume-wise against the proliferation of drum kits, big brass sections and electric guitars that were becoming prevalent at that time. The reason it was called 'Precision' is that it had frets, where the DB did not, and so could be played more accurately - and in tune.
[/quote]

To some degree, the Precision is a copy of the double bass. Like the Jazz is a copy of the Precision with one more pickup, the Precision is a copy of the double bass with one more pickup. The fretted bass is a copy of the double bass with added frets, and the fretless bass is, of course, a straight copy.

How would the 1935 Audiovox Bass Fiddle be a copy of the 1951 Fender Precision? Did Mr Tutmarc have a time machine as well as a design for a solid-bodied 4-string fretted electric bass?

[neepheid]

A Precision may be all I need, but it's not anything close to what I want.

[bassjim]

late to the party but heres my 2pence worth......... played just about every thing in the past but only when i got a fender did i see that this was what i was looking for all along sound wise. they really come into their own in a band situation as all ready mentioned here. are they overpriced? i can only go by the american deluxe range as i think these are up against the higher priced basses. even here they are a bargain. ie: 2 grand plus vrs approx £1500.00
i think: fender can afford to invest in hanging woods out to dry. they have exactly the right machinery so they consistently get it right. sure there will be some duff ones but these will be less so. every one is ever so slightly different and will need tweaking till its good for you. but thats how they work i think. you get one and get to know it. suss out for your self wjhat needd a tweak and adjust here and there. pick up heights, intonation,string height, neck tension ect. the thing that this range does so well above a lot of other brands is .....WORK. actually work. you want a straight neck? you got it. you want good intonation? you got it. all the parts look basic yet they all work. really well. playable? very very playable.a lot of higher priced instruments often fall short here. i cant of been that unlucky to have owned at least 7-8 high end basses that were all lacking somewhere in the "available adjustments" department. and then of course theres the sound. it is correct and is always correct to the ears of musicians and punters alike.

ok you might want something else sound wise or feel wise but get one of these and it will be your bass for life. even if its not needed right now there will always be somewhere down the line you need one. IMO

[BigRedX]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1442835243' post='2869795']
A Precision may be all I need, but it's not anything close to what I want.
[/quote]

This would probably be my position as well.

[discreet]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1442834620' post='2869787']
To some degree, the Precision is a copy of the double bass.
[/quote]

Yes, in that it has four strings, a bridge, a nut and tuning pegs. There the similarity ends. That's why the P Bass was such a revelation. It's much smaller, it's much lighter, it has frets, it's a sold-body electric guitar, it doesn't rely on acoustics to project its sound, it's played horizontally instead of vertically and it's played on a strap instead of being rested on the floor. Apart from the fact these two instruments share the same open-string tuning and share the same frequency space, they could hardly be more different!

Leo did design the P for DB players, but a lot of them simply couldn't, or wouldn't, go anywhere near it, and it was mainly curious guitar players dabbling with the new bass that took it up and ran with it. If the P Bass was a copy of the DB, surely moving from one to the other would have been seamless? It was not.

Sorry if this reply is sketchy, I'm trying not to read BigRedX's posts.

Edited September 21, 2015 by discreet

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1442835285' post='2869797']
late to the party but heres my 2pence worth......... played just about every thing in the past but only when i got a fender did i see that this was what i was looking for all along sound wise. they really come into their own in a band situation as all ready mentioned here. are they overpriced? i can only go by the american deluxe range as i think these are up against the higher priced basses. even here they are a bargain. ie: 2 grand plus vrs approx £1500.00
i think: fender can afford to invest in hanging woods out to dry. they have exactly the right machinery so they consistently get it right. sure there will be some duff ones but these will be less so. every one is ever so slightly different and will need tweaking till its good for you. but thats how they work i think. you get one and get to know it. suss out for your self wjhat needd a tweak and adjust here and there. pick up heights, intonation,string height, neck tension ect. the thing that this range does so well above a lot of other brands is .....WORK. actually work. you want a straight neck? you got it. you want good intonation? you got it. all the parts look basic yet they all work. really well. playable? very very playable.a lot of higher priced instruments often fall short here. i cant of been that unlucky to have owned at least 7-8 high end basses that were all lacking somewhere in the "available adjustments" department. and then of course theres the sound. it is correct and is always correct to the ears of musicians and punters alike.

ok you might want something else sound wise or feel wise but get one of these and it will be your bass for life. even if its not needed right now there will always be somewhere down the line you need one. IMO
[/quote]

What I'm getting at is that the likes of Maruszczyk do all of the above, and far more, for far less money.

Fender are lucky they have such a strong brand to rely on, 'cos if all builders had to start again from anonymity, they'd be left in the dust.

[Nicko]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1442834620' post='2869787']
To some degree, the Precision is a copy of the double bass. Like the Jazz is a copy of the Precision with one more pickup, the Precision is a copy of the double bass with one more pickup. The fretted bass is a copy of the double bass with added frets, and the fretless bass is, of course, a straight copy.

How would the 1935 Audiovox Bass Fiddle be a copy of the 1951 Fender Precision? Did Mr Tutmarc have a time machine as well as a design for a solid-bodied 4-string fretted electric bass?
[/quote]

Well I'm prepared to accept that the fender is a copy of the Audiovox, but it certainly ain't a copy of a double bass any more than a Les Paul is a copy of a violin.

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1442833179' post='2869760']
Which itself, of course, is a copy of the double bass.
[/quote]

Well, that's not really the case....

[ead]

Despite my penchant for ACGs, I recently acquired a Jazz bass (or two) for a particular band. Having now converted the band to the ACG sound as well, I think I'll hang onto one of them it as there's quite a lot to like about them and also a lot of the music I grew up with was played on them.

[Conan]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1442835285' post='2869797']are they overpriced? i can only go by the american deluxe range as i think these are up against the higher priced basses. even here they are a bargain. ie: 2 grand plus vrs approx £1500.00
they have exactly the right machinery so they consistently get it right. sure there will be some duff ones but these will be less so. [/quote]

I'm confused. Are you saying that they are consistent, or not? Of course, every piece of wood is unique (even from the same tree), but getting things like string alignment and how well the neck fits into its pocket wrong is very poor on instruments at this price point (even MIM basses).

And comparing USA Deluxe fenders with bespoke, handmade "boutique" basses is like comparing apples with oranges. Different market altogether (IME). The Fenders (even Custom Shop to a certain extent) are mass-produced by machines. As such they are (IMO) overpriced - even allowing for shipping, import duties and so on.

[Conan]

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1442838700' post='2869849']
I recently acquired a Jazz bass... a lot of the music I grew up with was played on them.
[/quote]

I suspect that is a big part of the appeal. We are used to hearing (and seeing) Fenders. Just watch any of the BBC's reruns of music from the sixties onwards, and virtually every bassist will be using a P or a J (usually in 3TSB, but's that's another story!)

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1442838864' post='2869852']
I suspect that is a big part of the appeal. We are used to hearing (and seeing) Fenders. Just watch any of the BBC's reruns of music from the sixties onwards, and virtually every bassist will be using a P or a J (usually in 3TSB, but's that's another story!)
[/quote]

My impression from watching TotP and TOGWT in the 70s, was that Fender basses were no more or less common than Rickenbackers or Gibsons. Maybe it was just that I found the design of the Fender basses so dull (for me the iconic basses of the time were the 4001 and the Thunderbird) that I just ignored them.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1442838864' post='2869852']
I suspect that is a big part of the appeal. We are used to hearing (and seeing) Fenders. Just watch any of the BBC's reruns of music from the sixties onwards, and virtually every bassist will be using a P or a J (usually in 3TSB, but's that's another story!)
[/quote]

But there also wasn't any alternatives either. Maybe 4001 but a lot of that was a jazz in the studio..?? and as for SG's..??
The Alembic made a few waves in the early 70's I think and so did Wal but people like Sadowsky had realised that all you needed
to do for the NY session market was to make them (Fenders) better.
IRC, Aguilar and Demeter did the same thing at the same time with pre amps.

The Americans loved 'rodding' an original idea out of sight... hence their car culture for hot rods and Harley's.. and they accuse
the Japs of being copyists..