Just upset a charity organiser...OPPS

[spacey]

Oh dear, just upset a charity organiser big time.
They put on a almost National event in venues up and down the country, lots of bands play for free, big venues, £15 a ticket.

I asked for some accounts !

What he replied ?
Well, this is your fourth year I am to understand ?
Yes thats right, so I Know what I am doing.
Well I said, you will have some accounts then for the Charity I assume, how much was taken at the door on ticket sales, on merchandise, what were the costs, the profit and how much was given to the charity.

Now he is saying I am accusing him of been a thief ?

I only asked for a few sums of what he was wanting me to put my name to.
I would have thought it was quite a sensible question.

We sold xxxx tickets and grossed £xxxxx and we had £xxxx in costs and this much ££££??? went to charity (proof included)

I only asked because I was considering his request seriously....

Was I wrong to ask what happens to all the money ?
Is the code of ethics, shut up and dont ask ?

[chris_b]

The conclusion, rightly or wrongly, is that he is something to hide.

Call the charity and ask them.

[Japhet]

You're perfectly within your rights to ask for the information. Charity accounts should be completely transparent. Having been involved in non-profit organizations, the amount of accountability can be absolutely massive. People are entitled to know what happens to their money.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Japhet

[Big_Stu]

I can see your point, I wouldn't necessarily say he had something to hide, especially if he's a badge-wearing rep for them. He should be happy to show the profits they made for the charity so it is a strange reaction.
Many years ago I worked on the stationery for a major UK charity, every alteration, comma, full stop etc was subject to a meeting. Any change to the job took 2-3 months of delay while they had a meeting about it. I don't give to that charity anymore.

[BassBus]

You could always contact the Charities Commision. Registered charities are required to submit their accounts. Does this charity have a registered number?

http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/registerhomepage.aspx

[JTUK]

I must admit what with all the BIG TV campaigns it is pertinent to ask where the money goes..??

I do this for most of the festivals we get involved in when we give them a fee, if they give us the charity angle.
There are too many charity beer festivals around here which tend to be for 'charity' so I think it is pertinent to ask
as nicely as you can where the money went last year...
Of course, you may well lose the gig on it...but you'll gauge whether it is worth it.

I had a bit of a sing-song with a 'promoter' abou their costs and how much cheaper they were than
gigs they percieved as comparable....when I ask if they paid the bands.
They said they didn't so as to maximise the charity donation but I noted that really didn't pan out.

Bottom line £5 entrance and sold out in a field so must assume a good few thousand... with a free band bill
against a Tented festival with a few thousand thru the door at £6 per head plus camping etc etc but with a music
bill costing £5k OIRO including P.A, lights and staging costs.... and the latter posted better figures to their charities, iirc..
so I would be thinking where the money went with regards to the former..??

Fair question, IMO..and one that he SHOULD be prepared to answer ..and some!!!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1416827360' post='2613881']
The conclusion, rightly or wrongly, is that he is something to hide.

Call the charity and ask them.
[/quote]

That's certainly one possibility, but it's also possible that he is offended by the insinuation that he has something to hide.

Agree with getting hold of the charity accounts though.

[lojo]

Its a fair enough question that should be very easy to answer, if not by the person you ask then at least by someone they can

[TimR]

Depends how you ask.

The problem stems from you having done the gig several times before with no question.

You could have just said you'd had problems recently following another gig and just said as a result you're now asking to see accounts before you agree to any future charity gigs to protect everyone involved.

It's his problem if he is offended.

[spacey]

Having a did, it looks like a private promoter who then makes a donation to this charity involved.
Apparently the charity involved state it is confidential information what donations are made and the only accounts they produce are total donations, individual donations are confidential.
I am starting to see why he might be so offended by my questions.

[chris_b]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask where the cash is going.

He's asking you to give up your time and money, so if he's donating to a charity he should be proud of that fact . Proud enough to give the details to anyone who asks. The fact that he got huffy means, in my book, he's not giving as much as he should.

[gadgie]

I don't see what he has to be offended about. I think charity is a great thing when done correctly. not sure that came out right. It always surprises me when I see that there are overheads to pay..lighting etc. do they not do it for nothing as well. Ok they maybe had to buy the gear to do it, but I'm pretty sure all the players have had to buy their own gear to use...................for free.

[TheRev]

Regardless of whether he is technically donating as a private individual, he's asking you to work for free so he can make a private (i.e. sum of his choice) donation. Now, you may support the charity and you may even benefit from the exposure the event brings but as you're aslo being asked to 'donate' to the event I think you're entitled to ask how much your donation works out at. As for him saying that you're accusing him of theft - methinks the lady doth protest too much...

Anyway, this all sounds a bit familiar.... does the event name sound like a breakfast preserve made from cows?

[TheRev]

[quote name='gadgie' timestamp='1416835660' post='2614018']
I don't see what he has to be offended about. I think charity is a great thing when done correctly. not sure that came out right. It always surprises me when I see that there are overheads to pay..lighting etc. do they not do it for nothing as well. Ok they maybe had to buy the gear to do it, but I'm pretty sure all the players have had to buy their own gear to use...................for free.
[/quote]

Ah, but bands play for the love of it, don't they? Plus, you'll get loads of exposure! Yeah, right.

There are a couple of local charities that my band work with to put on gigs - some of which we play ourselves, and the bands always get paid beacuse the PA guy gets paid. And the lighting guy, and the bar staff and the security staff....

[bassintheface]

nothing wrong with that and I ask a similar set of questions when being asked about 'charity' events too.

Especially when they expect you'll play for free, provide the PA, lighting and backline!!

[ambient]

I personally don't agree with [b]working[/b] [b]for nothing[/b] at a charity gig.

Mainly because of this kind of thing.

Same as I don't give money to people rattling buckets, time or other containers anywhere.

If I want to give to charity, then I'll donate direct to them.

Edited November 24, 2014 by ambient

[JTUK]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1416832887' post='2613969']
Having a did, it looks like a private promoter who then makes a donation to this charity involved.
Apparently the charity involved state it is confidential information what donations are made and the only accounts they produce are total donations, individual donations are confidential.
I am starting to see why he might be so offended by my questions.
[/quote]

Of course...which was also my point in my thread...
That is why I am happy to give our fee, and then everything else is not my business...
but if he wants our services for free, I'll need a bit more than 'its for charity'...
and most bills are handled by a promoter these days and it is hard work... so I'd expect them to want to be paid..
which is why I don't get why they don't seem to want to pay the bill..????

That is the way I generally 'read' these things..

[TimR]

I used to play charity events for a reduced fee. Until I did a gig that charged £50 a ticket and they made £10k in the charity auction. I figured our band fee didn't even touch the sides.

[ambient]

I'm totally against the idea of doing anything for free, just me of course.

Slightly off topic I guess, but a singer I play for was recently asked to perform at Jamie Oliver's Italian restaurant in St Albans, the same day as the Christmas lights were being switched on, kind of like 'carrying on the party atmosphere'. They wanted us to play for free.

Someone somewhere's always trying to make money out of you, trying to help someone else.

The very least I'd expect would be to have expenses covered, but that's often not even the case, so now it's a blanket no.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1416836062' post='2614027']
Anyway, this all sounds a bit familiar.... does the event name sound like a breakfast preserve made from cows?
[/quote]


I've played those and had the same thought! I imagine it would be a bit like sugary Bovril...

[gadgie]

Found this definition of charity online:

the voluntary giving of help, typically in the form of money, to those in need.

I can understand people working in a bar where the gig is being held need to get paid. They have little choice as this is their place of work. but I feel if you agree to play a charity gig then it should be for free. I don't think anyone should make a profit out of charity. however, I do understand that people make good money out of charity.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[taunton-hobbit]

Back in the day, we had a number of local dance halls that used to advertise 'in aid of so&so charity' - turned out they were dropping around twenty quid into the local charity box and trousering the odd few hundred themselves....beware of any 'charity' that can't produce accounts - someone is extracting the wee wee here....sod them getting offended, someone (including your band) is getting ripped...........

[planer]

If you're still on speaking terms, I would suggest to him that perhaps he has misunderstood your question and particularly your motives for asking.

Explain those motives if invited, and just ask again. If his figures are transparent and charity really does benefit (properly) from the event, I can't really see why he has an issue, maybe no-one had ever asked before...

[BigAlonBass]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1416832887' post='2613969']
Having a did, it looks like a private promoter who then makes a donation to this charity involved.
Apparently the charity involved state it is confidential information what donations are made and the only accounts they produce are total donations, individual donations are confidential.
I am starting to see why he might be so offended by my questions.
[/quote]

Screw that! Get on to the Charities Commission, and DEMAND answers!
"You're calling me a thief" followed up by "We really can't tell you how much he donates" leaves a HELL of a lot of scope for money to slip into back pockets. You've played this Gig before, so you have a vested interest in knowing if you or the Charity have been ripped off, especially if it's happened more than once. It's typical "bureaucrat speak", practically the same as when Politicians "can't comment on individual cases" when EVERY case is individual.

(edit for typo)

Edited November 24, 2014 by BigAlonBass