lojo Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1389095886' post='2329762'] IME no set list works only if ONE person calls the next song and their word is THE LAW. [/quote] I agree , but suggested it as clearly in the band we are discussing, democracy isn't working during the gig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1389097645' post='2329800'] ....the idea is for the band to set/determine the tone, rather than follow, react to it.... [/quote] +1 We are leading, not the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1389006907' post='2328586'] My opinion is it is unprofessional to wing it without set lists if it will create time lapses in the entertainment. That would frustrate the hell out of me. [/quote] +1. Our set list takes into account, among other things, any guitar or tuning changes. If we have a couple of songs in drop D we will put them next to each other in the set to cut down on the faffing around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1389102037' post='2329884'] I agree , but suggested it as clearly in the band we are discussing, democracy isn't working during the gig [/quote] Not really a band then is it? Just two blokes with guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Some of the best solo performers I've seen have a set list. Saw Phil Beer on Sunday and he got a lot of requests at half-time, he tore up his original set list but had drawn up a new one before he started the second half. Meant that his second set was balanced, included the requests, and he knew where he was going. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) I don't understand it! I've [i]never [/i]in 35 years been in a band that don't use a set list. In fact, our rehearsals before gigs involve cutting the dead time between numbers to an [i]absolute minimum[/i]. I've never even considered the remote possibility of not using a set list and have never encountered or even imagined such a thing before reading this thread! Surely not using a set list and publicly debating which number to do next at a gig can only lead to a total fecking omnishambles?? I don't even like so-called 'banter' between numbers and if I'm watching a band and there is any sort of delay whatsoever, I'm usually the first to shout, 'GET ON WITH IT!' [size=4]So, if at your next gig you hear that from the back of the room - it was me. [/size] Edited January 7, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassie Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1389134648' post='2330602'] I don't understand it! I've [i]never [/i]in 35 years been in a band that don't use a set list. In fact, our rehearsals before gigs involve cutting the dead time between numbers to an [i]absolute minimum[/i]. I've never even considered the remote possibility of not using a set list and have never encountered or even imagined such a thing before reading this thread! Surely not using a set list and publicly debating which number to do next at a gig can only lead to a total fecking omnishambles?? I don't even like so-called 'banter' between numbers and if I'm watching a band and there is any sort of delay whatsoever, I'm usually the first to shout, 'GET ON WITH IT!' [size=4]So, if at your next gig you hear that from the back of the room - it was me. [/size] [/quote]Omnishambles. Isn't that Pete Docherty's band? Bet even he has a set list... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1389135252' post='2330616'] Omnishambles. Isn't that Pete Docherty's band? [/quote] Er... no, I think it's Babycham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1389005849' post='2328572'] ... but at the end of the year I'm off... [/quote] I'd give them notice now and tell them exactly why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 As I say, you need one person running the show. Let them decide whether the band is gong to take a 15sec break to sip water while the dancers in the audience catch their breath. People don't sit down unless you stop for quite a while or continually stop between numbers. I agree with the poster who says the band should set the mood, people want to be entertained and providing you deliver it confidently they'll dance to pretty much anything. Having an actual set list is down to whoever is running the show. I once depped with a band where the leader read the audience and called the next tune as the previous one was finishing. They had a huge repertoire of tunes. I rang him the week before the gig to get some idea of what tunes we were going to play. He said "Just our usual stuff, use your ears, you'll be ok." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Combine this with guitarists with pedal tuners who faff around getting the guitar bang on ever song and you soon have a band that looks nervous on stage and this can make the gig hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1389137609' post='2330657'] Combine this with guitarists with pedal tuners who faff around getting the guitar bang on ever song and you soon have a band that looks nervous on stage and this can make the gig hard work. [/quote] Definitely. The bass player should just lean back slightly, rest his hands on his bass, smile confidently and wait for normal service to resume. Don't get drawn in and never lose your cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I'd rather have guitarists who tune than guitarists who don't... One of the reasons our New Years' gig was awful was that we'd agreed a set list, and then it got reworked on the fly. D'oh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1389005849' post='2328572'] The covers band I play in doesn't use a set list. We do have a list of around 40 songs that we can pick from, but we don't physically use a piece of paper with songs written on it in the order we're going to play them. This generally leads to some gaps between songs while the two guitarists (one of them sings lead) decide which song to play next. Add to this the gaps between songs while the singer changes his guitar for no reason other than a Les Paul or a Strat was used on the original, so that's what he has to play for that particular song. All this leads to a set that doesn't flow at all, and if we manage to get people up and dancing, the aforementioned guitar-changing-song-deciding-habit tends to kill the moment, and the dancers go and sit down while these two discuss the next song. This came to a head on Saturday when the guitarists disagreed over which tune to play. Singer wanted to play a Free song, non-singer wanted to play a Foo Fighters song. Non-singer started to play the opening riff, while singer told him "no, we're doing Free". This then led to non-singer getting stroppy and going "fine, have it your way", then started to play opening riff to the Free tune in a manner which suggested that he wasn't a happy bunny. Singer then decides to say quite loudly "Oh I'm not in the mood for this!" but eventually we all join in and finish the song. The mood then lightens toward the end of the first set and everyone is friends again. The joys of being in a band with no set list! We have 50+ gigs booked for this year, and I will honour every one of them, but at the end of the year I'm off. Anyone else have to deal with childish, ego maniacs while playing in a PUB COVERS BAND? [/quote] sounds to me like the real problem is the attitude of your two guitarists! argue all you want, but off-stage. In the bands I'm in, we started with setlists when we were starting out, but we always altered the order as the night progressed if we felt it was appropriate. Setlists eventually become a list of songs we can do, and the singer (usually the singer has the last word about what song comes next) can have a quick glance at the list by his feet if he does not have a song already in mind, to get ideas. We all contribute suggestions 'though, and don't spend any noticeable time (usually) debating what song to do next. I have sometimes been unhappy to some extent (maybe my suggestion was "vetoed", or whatever), but I played on and don't make a scene. If I have to make a scene I make it afterwards I think one person has to be in charge of choosing the songs and have the final word. The stage is not the place to ask around about what song to play next. Having said that, there is a degree of "setness" in what we play. In one of the bands there is a lot of drop-D songs that the guitarist uses a different guitar for (I just flick the lever on my Hipshop D-tuner), so we group songs to some degree to avoid excessive guitar changing. We generally have a few songs that we play togethers, and the minute we start one, we all know we will play X and Y right afterwards. Similarly, we tend to start with one of a very reduced number of songs, and have a definite last song in most cases -although there may be an encore at times). Whatever you do, long gaps between songs are booooooring and must be avoided. And keep arguments outside of the stage. Edited January 8, 2014 by mcnach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassie Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1389137837' post='2330658'] The bass player should just lean back slightly, rest his hands on his bass, smile confidently and wait for normal service to resume. [/quote]I've done this. And I will continue to do it... Just to add something else that I've remembered, there has been a couple of occasions where sing/guit has turned to his left to tell the other two which song is next but hasn't turned to his right (where I stand) to tell me, and I've had to tap him on the shoulder to ask him. To be honest, it's only now, while I've been typing all this for this thread that I realise how utterly ridiculous the situation is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1389184297' post='2330972'] ....but hasn't turned to his right (where I stand) to tell me, and I've had to tap him on the shoulder to ask him.... [/quote] I've had this a few times, so in the end I just stood there and watched them start the intro without me. Anyway, in praise of set lists: I start my bass intro numbers 1 second after the singer has said "thank you". The drummer is the same with his intros. Set lists are used by all big touring bands, the Stones, Bowie, U2, Prince, ZZ Top, Foo Fighters, Muse etc etc, A set list isn't a straight jacket, but everyone knowing what is coming next enables the band to present a seamless show. How is your bass tec going to bring the right bass out if he doesn’t know what the next number is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iriegnome Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 We have not used a set list in about 14 years. I have been in my current band (yep) for 14 years. We have a master song list. When a song is starting to get to an area of transition, the next person who will be singing must choose a song or someone will choose it for them. The songs never stop. There is always some sort of jam/transition music between songs. Key changes and such are all part of that. For full beat/groove changes, the drummers (we have 2) will do some sort of cymbal wash fade kind of thing and the guitarists (we have 3) will start out the next tune. It is my job to fill in the gaps with the guitarists and drummers. Everything is done on the fly and to the audience reaction. If we are playing a certain type of tune that is really going well, we stick with another similar type tune, if the tune is a bomb, then we change it up. Worked for us for 14 years and counting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='iriegnome' timestamp='1389198636' post='2331236'] We have not used a set list in about 14 years. I have been in my current band (yep) for 14 years. We have a master song list. When a song is starting to get to an area of transition, the next person who will be singing must choose a song or someone will choose it for them. The songs never stop. There is always some sort of jam/transition music between songs. Key changes and such are all part of that. For full beat/groove changes, the drummers (we have 2) will do some sort of cymbal wash fade kind of thing and the guitarists (we have 3) will start out the next tune. It is my job to fill in the gaps with the guitarists and drummers. Everything is done on the fly and to the audience reaction. If we are playing a certain type of tune that is really going well, we stick with another similar type tune, if the tune is a bomb, then we change it up. Worked for us for 14 years and counting. [/quote] This sounds like a good way of working. You must have all worked hard to become technically proficient and able to work in a slick way as a unit. Plus respecting each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merello Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Sheer narcissism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='merello' timestamp='1389302742' post='2332713'] Sheer narcissism. [/quote] is that the name of your band? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dyer Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 A good way to introduce a setlist into the band and keep the set flowing is to segue a few of your songs, the obvious one is first into second song or maybe even the third if you're feeling ambitious. Try coming out of something hectic into a mid paced funk song with no break, you'll often sense the audience lift with you, they think you sound professional and tight which of course you are, because you've thought about it, rehearsed it (hopefully), compared to last week's band who just made it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 We have a set list, but after 2 or 3 songs the lead singer/guitarist starts calling whatever he thinks will go down best with the audience. It works well for all of us except the harp player who always needs to be told which key the song is in. I would say that we are more tight than professional, especially in the second set if we get free drinks, then we are all pretty tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Surely the songs are in the same key they were last time you played them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1389137609' post='2330657'] Combine this with guitarists with pedal tuners who faff around getting the guitar bang on ever song and you soon have a band that looks nervous on stage and this can make the gig hard work. [/quote] If only our guitarist had a pedal tuner. Or, indeed, ever bothered to bring the tuner that he finally managed to get round to buying a year ago (he's been playing for over 30 years) to a gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 We have a band leader who books all the gigs, owns all the PA gear/van, pays us (total fee split equally 5 ways between the four of us with the fifth going to a pot that covers communal costs such as insurance, van repairs/running and rehearsals) and most importantly calls the shots! We start with the same two songs and after that we have approx. 50 in the memory banks that can be called upon at any point. Leader is guitarist and lead vocals so more often than not, he'll start the next track by kicking off the vocal/guitar riff and we all come in at the right points. If not, he'll just turn and shout the name of the next song and whoever starts it off just goes for it. Makes us a fluid, reactive ensemble who can adapt what/when we play depending on the audience. Never use a set list as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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