The 'secret' of a great bass sound?

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1371137756' post='2110380']
I agree with you in some ways, in that the effect of hitting strings in different ways on an electric bass does not have the level of variance that it would on say a classical guitar, and that some people do talk a lot of bollocks on this subject.

BUT, players do have very different sounds when they play the same instrument. When people say fingers, they really mean BRAIN. The way each note is attacked, the way the right and left hands interact, the left hand techniques used, the minute decisions people make while they phrase a musical passage, these all combine to make very significant differences that add up to a personal style of operating the instrument. That's what I think people mean by 'fingers'.
[/quote]

no sorry mister Nige - its deffo my fingers play my bass - but i get your point and i'll extend it further by postulating that its your unconscious brain that does all the good stuff - if your conscious brain starts taking over it usually tries to hard and you'll probably end up sounding all malmsteeny or something

[Dood]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"The only way, in my opinion, to get a great bass sound is to have a great-sounding bass player....[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Oh and a great engineer who knows how to get a good bass sound in the mix. - Just a thought really. I can think of several occasions when I have listened to a track and thought the bass sound was nothing short of magical, but then been surprised at the sound when isolated. The bass player's execution didn't even sound that tight either, having been masked by the kick drum(s) for example. Beauty is in the eye of the be..umm.. cook who doesn't spoil the brew![/font][/color]

[ianrendall]

My 'secret' is my Nordstrand NP4, 15" speaker and valve preamp. My technique has also developed. It's mostly in the fingers, and should not be underestimated.

[ianrendall]

I say mostly, but gear is very important.
Also, does anyone else find that having a good sound makes you play better?

[Low End Bee]

I'm hoping the secret is buying the engineer their favourite biscuits just before they start mixing.
I'll let you know if it's worked next week.

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1371157905' post='2110761']
We are getting away from the issue here, obviously some people can get great sounds by the way they play, but I am saying you ain't gonna change your own sound by playing different, maybe a couple of passages, but not your overall sound. Your fingers, or pick, make a sound and that's it. You need to change strings, guitar, amp, speakers, whatever but you ain't gonna change your own sound unless you attack harder. What's that about the length of time you leave your finger on the string? Last time I tried, that was a mute, c'mon guys, it's down to gear. Each guy has his own style but its near impossible to change your style once you have developed it
[/quote]

I'm speechless - literally!!

With all due respect, I could [b]not[/b] disagree more. I'd suggest that you'd have no problem identifying, say, Pino, whatever bass he was playing and through whatever rig.

IMHO it[b] IS [/b]"all in the fingers (or pick etc etc)".

Mind you, I have only been electric playing bass for 45+ years, so what do I know?!?!

[xilddx]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' timestamp='1371213002' post='2111263']
I'm speechless - literally!!

With all due respect, I could [b]not[/b] disagree more. I'd suggest that you'd have no problem identifying, say, Pino, whatever bass he was playing and through whatever rig.

IMHO it[b] IS [/b]"all in the fingers (or pick etc etc)".

Mind you, I have only been electric playing bass for 45+ years, so what do I know?!?!
[/quote]

You have, perhaps unwittingly, agreed with iceonaboy. You have implied that if you handed Pino Robbie Shakespeare's Steinberger with a massive dub tone that Pino would be instantly identifiable, therefore all that matters is what and how he's playing, the tone is irrelevant. What the fingers are doing is what the brain is telling them to do, and since we are all individuals there will be very many nuances that will reflect the experienced and musical player's individual style - technique, note choice, certain preferred musical devices and themes, and the space they use.

People keep saying 'it's all in the fingers' and I think it's one of those completely meaningless stock phrases. It's all in the brain. There are plenty of musicians who've been playing for donkey's years and have no recognisable style, so with all respect, pulling rank based on age and length of time playing doesn't really mean sh*t. Put Geddy on any rig and he'll probably sound like Geddy, and Geddy's fingers are only a fragment of the equation.

[goingdownslow]

So if you sound sh*t you can't blame the sound engineer or the equipment or the venue, it is just you.
I've seen the same players sound sh*t in some venues and sound good in others, why do they play like that?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1371137756' post='2110380']
... When people say fingers, they really mean BRAIN ...
[/quote]
I'd say that when people say 'fingers' they ought not to mean 'brain', but they should really mean 'person'.

My brain alone doesn't play bass any more than my fingers alone do; I play bass.

[xilddx]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1371223436' post='2111424']
I'd say that when people say 'fingers' they ought not to mean 'brain', but they should really mean 'person'.

My brain alone doesn't play bass any more than my fingers alone do; I play bass.
[/quote]

Granted.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1371223738' post='2111429']
Granted.
[/quote]
Though I'd grant that much of it may be unconscious to the person.

[PaulWarning]

personally I think somebody's playing style is more to do with the rhythm they put into a bass line, that note a little bit late that one a little bit early, a bit like a singers phrasing really. Plus we all have our favourite patterns on the finger board, well I do anyway.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1371114918' post='2109895']
Great quote from producer/songwriter Ethan Johns in the current issue of Sound On Sound magazine:

"The only way, in my opinion, to get a great bass sound is to have a great-sounding bass player... People hear Danny Thompson's bass sound and they go, 'Can you get me that sound?' And the answer is, 'No, I can't.' It's the way he plays it..."

So, more time practicing and less time spent GASsing for me
[/quote]

Don't know who that is.. but for me, this is the way to go about it.
You start with bass that can reproduce a sound and not a thump... so notes are defined
across the whole bass.
You have an amp and cab that faithfully tries to reproduce that without gettting bass heavy or massively light up top

So now you have a system that reproduces what you put in, to a degree, and if you don't like the sound..then look at what and how you play it.

If you play hard and thumpy ... then that can work in certain styles but as clean as poss is the place to start.
It is easier to add stuff that is missing that to try taking stuff away.

[xilddx]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1371227137' post='2111478']
We have gone right off track with the original post. he was asking how you get a decent sound. A few people said its down to how you play, but I say its down to how you buy, because I can play fine and I find a difference in my sound when I buy different gear...simples!
[/quote]

Please don't say 'simples'. It has the same effect on your monologue as having a sneezing fit in the middle of giving someone a bollocking.

[xilddx]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1371228358' post='2111504']
I am so sorry, I would hate to give that impression
[/quote]

[Damonjames]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1371114918' post='2109895']
Great quote from producer/songwriter Ethan Johns in the current issue of Sound On Sound magazine:

"The only way, in my opinion, to get a great bass sound is to have a great-sounding bass player... People hear Danny Thompson's bass sound and they go, 'Can you get me that sound?' And the answer is, 'No, I can't.' It's the way he plays it..."

So, more time practicing and less time spent GASsing for me
[/quote]


I would agree with this mindset, but only in part. While I agree that if you went out and bought a gallien kreuger rb head, some Mesa boogie cabs and a stingray you will not sound just like flea. But I will tell you now you will sound ALOT more like him than you would playing a Washburn through a trace Elliott! I think that while an individuals playing style is as unique as a singing voice, so too the instruments we use to reproduce it have their own characteristics. My advice would be to find someone you like the sound of, and try your best to get the same gear, then see how YOU sound with it. You may find its just right, or it could be god aweful, so then move on to something else.
Besides GAS is FUN!!!!

[TimR]

Practice is cheating.

[TimR]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1371227137' post='2111478']
We have gone right off track with the original post. he was asking how you get a decent sound. A few people said its down to how you play, but I say its down to how you buy, because I can play fine and I find a difference in my sound when I buy different gear...simples!
[/quote]

You are possibly looking at it from the wrong angle. He's saying that you have to have a good sound at source. No end of fancy gear will 'fix' bad technique.

The big names have the option of buying any gear they want. The only variable is the player. The one thing you can change that will make the biggest difference to your track.

Especially when they tell you they're going to DI you, just bring a P bass...

[Lowender]

Of course it's the player. A good player with a crap bass will sound better than a crap player with a good bass. But different basses just give tonal variety. As a recording bassist, I like that option. And it can really make a difference.

Play straight ahead jazz with a P and you're convincing. Play it with a Music man -- not so much. And the opposite is true. If you want to sound like Flea and you're using a Squier 50's P -- it ain't gonna happen.

[BigRedX]

The secret of a great bass sound is listening to other instruments and the vocals and then playing in such a way that makes them all sound even better.

[steve-bbb]

nobody mentioned nuances yet?

[SteveK]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1371247868' post='2111848']
If you want to sound like Flea and you're using a Squier 50's P -- it ain't gonna happen.
[/quote]
I bet Flea could make a Squier 50s P sound like Flea.

[chris_b]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1371286888' post='2112061']
....I bet Flea could make a Squier 50s P sound like Flea....
[/quote]

So far he's made his Wal, Stingray and Modulus sound like him, so a Squier would be no problem.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1371286888' post='2112061']
I bet Flea could make a Squier 50s P sound like Flea.
[/quote]
Strange that because I reckon Entwistle/Jamerson/Burnell/deleteasapplicable would have made it sound quite different.

[Damonjames]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1371288211' post='2112093']


So far he's made his Wal, Stingray and Modulus sound like him, so a Squier would be no problem.
[/quote]

Agreed, but listen to aeroplane off one hot minute, there is no question that is a stingray, which as far as I know was the only track he used it on. The rest of the album was done with the wal. As far as the modulus is concerned, it is a similar style to a 'ray, it would be like trying to say flea would sound worlds apart playing a fender j vs a lakland j.
The whole point I was trying to make is the op is correct, it is virtually impossible to sound exactly like your idols, but you can get close by choosing the right equipment. I guess the question really should be clarified and put Into some context. Using flea as the example, I'm pretty sure I could
Pick up his exact rig and play one of his songs (ok maybe with some practice in a studio to nail the exact subtleties of the song) and do a pretty close rendition. What I know would be impossible to do is pick up his exact rig, and create an original bass track for a song that could ever be passed off as his.