Non 4 string social stigma?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1356892845' post='1914839']


I was talking about Gary Moore. What part of that world could be described as "hobby"?

Playing for money is an established part of the music world, or are Orchestras only supposed to just play for fun.
[/quote]

Wasn't specifically aimed at your post. Playing for money at a 'normal' is almost dead unless you are in great band. Most cover bands are now a waste of time unless you are the cream of the crop and get a decent wage from it. If you are compromising and only earning £60 a week from it, id rather play originals and get absolutely nothing, (not aimed at anyone's circs)!

Playing when you are with an artist or when you are the artist, and its a real wage is totally different. It then ventures into fame.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Musicman20

[Antiloco]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1356893726' post='1914852']


I would.

If I got a phonecall tomorrow asking me to tour with some god awful act like Nicki Minaj, I'd do it. The money would be insane and I'd certainly have some stories to tell. Would you miss out on that opportunity?
[/quote]

I would and have thanked no to several money oriented acts that display a lack of respect for the musical art. That's the main reason I studied pedagogy after my musical studies. I couldn't stand the horrible level seen in popular music. I despise most the modern music industry has to offer. Move your ass and be a clown after years of studying and sacrifice? No thanks it's disgusting.

Kudos for all of you who have a great band to play in where you can develop as a human being not concerned about paying the rent.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1356894193' post='1914867']
I have a CAR Jazz that I reckon could be used in any situation, its only a four so solo noodle stuff might be hard but I can't play like that, punk, jazz, rock, funk, indie and blues can all be played on a CAR Jazz with a black pick guard I'd say?
[/quote]

Yes, but my point is [b]not [/b]"there are [i]no[/i] basses that are suitable for all gigs", it was "not [i]all[/i] basses are suitable for all gigs"

[chris_b]

[quote]....ezbass, on 30 December 2012 - 06:37 PM,

said: Windsor Castle, Carshalton....[/quote]

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1356893306' post='1914846']
Thanks. I'll make a point of never venturing over there.
[/quote]

Dave, I think you [i]should[/i] give the Windsor Castle jam a visit. It's a good, lively and mostly interesting night, (on the first Monday of the month).

I don't know when ezbass visited us , but as the house bass player for this jam for the last 8 or so years I can assure you that the band has no say in the decision about who gets up to play. I have [i]never[/i] told anyone they can't play and the type or quality of the instrument is irrelevant. If you turn up and introduce yourself to Robin Bibi you're on; the only proviso being, is there time to fit everyone in.

As long as you turn up with an instrument you play. We've had a drum troupe, a didgeridoo player, violin players and dancers banging tambourines. Everyone has their moment.

I can't speak for the situation before I joined, but Robin has run it from the start so I would think that the same rules would have applied then.

We are not an elitist bunch, and if you want to chat we are very approachable.

Don't judge us on unsubstantiated posts.

Next jam is on the 7[sup]th[/sup] January at the Windsor Castle, Carshalton.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1356897187' post='1914937']


Yes, but my point is [b]not [/b]"there are [i]no[/i] basses that are suitable for all gigs", it was "not [i]all[/i] basses are suitable for all gigs"
[/quote]

Ah I see! I quite like the idea of seeing someone playing a Bootsy star bass in a pit

[BASainty]

Can't say I've had much experience of this round my part. I don't really understand the whole image thing, as long as you sound good in the mix why should it matter?

I think its more how does one wear their instrument and how do they act while playing with that group? That will play a bigger part on the image of the band more than just the look of the instrument.

[Silvia Bluejay]

Glad I'm not a gigging bass player - I mean, what if I turned up at their door with a five-string upright...?

[molan]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1356899035' post='1914973']


Ah I see! I quite like the idea of seeing someone playing a Bootsy star bass in a pit
[/quote]

I had one of those for a while - from a practical point of view you can't play them sitting down, lol

[molan]

In one covers band I was in I encountered a singer who couldn't hit a lot of the high notes so we agreed to knock a swathe of songs down by a fair bit.

I found a lot of songs 'dropping off the end of the board' so I took a five string to the next rehearsal. It wasn't anything flamboyant, simple overwater J bass in faded Oly white with a tort guard.

I was amazed at the negativity I encountered!

Started with a comment from a guitarist about the last bass player he worked with that had a 5 string was a complete w***er.

Then I was asked, repeatedly, why I couldn't learn to play elsewhere on the fretboard on my 4 string and whether anyone in an audience would actually be able to hear the difference on the low notes if I played on a 4 rather than the 5.

Moved on to a claim that they'd be listening carefully to see if I started making mistakes on the 5.

Most of this came from a guitarist with an array of guitars and a bank or rack effects that regularly robbed his guitar of any quality tone!

Anyway, I ignored it all and just played the 5 from then on. Still got some negative comments now & then but I let it go over my head.

Eventually the singer left and we moved a lot of songs back to their original keys, where they sounded better, and I moved back to my favourite old 4.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1356910871' post='1915157']
Glad I'm not a gigging bass player - I mean, what if I turned up at their door with a five-string upright...?
[/quote]

I'd say "play it sideways and you're in"

[Silvia Bluejay]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1356912657' post='1915184']
I'd say "play it sideways and you're in"
[/quote]

LOL that's almost not a joke in the case of the NXT 5, it's so small and light and easy to play... I might even try one day

[drTStingray]

The content of this post encouraged me to take my Bongo 5 to a 60s jam I sometimes attend on a Sunday afternoon/evening - well I played on a total of about 15 songs, including 4 Shadows, a couple of Elvis, a Neil Diamond, Creedence etc. When the real 60s guys came on I was thankfully not called upon to play on Poetry in Motion or Teenager in Love (the latter of which had musos with a combined age of nearly 400 years - for a six piece that's going some) - but then again I wouldn't even if I had a bass fitting the genre cos some of these old guys often only trust equally aging people to play with them on this stuff - even though I know the parts as well as anyone else.

I will say it was a very fun time - some of the music was good, some appalling........and only a couple of playful negative comments were made about my bass - one guy (who I know well) asked if some bits had fallen off it pointing to the bottom horn - my response was to chuckle and ask him if his Strat (custom shop/matching headstock/vintage colour) was a copy as the headstock label looked a touch wonky............all playful banter really.

The good thing however was several musos commented on how my bass had a great sound. Before anyone gets the wrong idea with this, I do know all these guys and have done for years so maybe they are a little more tolerant with me and my whims - I would normally have used my coral red Stingray for the jam - well at least it matches some of the guitars in look!!

Now back to Gary Moore...........I think he once played in a band led by a famous bass player..........do you suppose Gary got told what guitar to play in that - maybe he was getting his own back on bass players with his own band re 62 Precisions? However I recall that someone auditioned (and got the job in Thin Lizzy) using a Les Paul copy..........they had had to sell their real one because they were broke, I believe the story had it.

My own personal view is that artists who require people to melt into the background in every possible way would do better playing to backing tracks and if they do need the 'illusion' of a live band, could hire models who blend in with whatever instrument (some of the choices made to 'fit an image' are absolutely hilarious) suits the manager/main artists whim to mime to the backing track - that way there would be no problem with anyone's ego, sound or anything else interfering. Come to think of it, isn't that what some pop acts do on MTV etc??

I don't play for a living but if I did, I would hope people booked me for my playing style, flexibility and my sound in which case giving me, for instance, a RIckenbacker to play, would possibly not work. I would certainly find it hard playing a bass I hated, through an amp I hated, on music I didn't have any affinity with, with a sound I hated, in an expressionless manner to fit the requirements of an artist night after night. I once read in an interview with Tony Levin that he had been asked not to play fills in a certain part of a P Floyd number - however this is different from the sort of control freakery described elsewhere in this thread - the guy has his own sound and is hired/paid for that. What is described elsewhere is musicianship devoid of creativity, artistry or expression - is far better reproduced by machine rather than human being?

Edited December 31, 2012 by drTStingray

[mbellishment]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1356915020' post='1915206']
I don't play for a living but if I did, I would hope people booked me for my style and my sound in which case giving me, for instance, a RIckenbacker to play, would possibly not work. I would certainly find it hard playing a bass I hated, through an amp I hated, on music I didn't have any affinity with, with a sound I hated, in an expressionless manner to fit the requirements of an artist night after night. I once read in an interview with Tony Levin that he had been asked not to play fills in a certain part of a P Floyd numbers - however this is different from the sort of control freakery described elsewhere in this thread - the guy has his own sound and is hired/paid for that. What is described elsewhere is musicianship devoid of creativity, artistry or expression - is far better reproduced by machine rather than human being?
[/quote]

+1
Poetry!

[gruffers]

If your in a gigging band with a particular image..... Just use the bass that fits that particular image.

It's not hard nor complicated. Just do it.

Nobody wants to see a Translucent Red Mega star flame top Bubinga Ebony Ernie Ball Bongo Bass in a indie/alt rock band. Nor some crusty rusty pre not much paint left since the dawn of time Precision Bass in a math tech metal fest.

Dress for the job in hand. It's all very simple.

End of the day, punters dont know any different, its's just your peers. Lets be honests the punters dont give a flying V what guitar you rock up with.


Anyone who argues that it's all about the sound and visuals are not important......I have only this..... Video killed the Radio star...Steinberger anyone????

Edited December 31, 2012 by gruffers

[basslondon]

Try what i do.

Turn up with a B-D tuned Tokai Jazz bass for the audition ( my stealth bass). After a short while, they get weird when your fingers "look wrong" when they shout out the chords to a new tune. If i survive that, i turn up with a five string bass to the next rehearsal which to them is strangely more palatable than a four string with its notes in the wrong place. I did get a weird reaction at a gig once from a sound engineer (at the Camden Barfly so it wasnt entirely unexpected.) She said " WOAH! Its a fusion trap. 5 string bass? Next your drummer will be coming out with a Dave Weckyl Signature Snare...".

Being a Middle Aged Baldie helps though as i'm so far away from "Normal" that a 5 string bass is the last of their image concerns. But standing 6'2" and being 180KG means any bass looks like a banjo on MOI. I used to get all kinds of stick for playing the ARIA SB1000. Till they heard it. And when i pull out the Jaydee and DONT go clackity clack,... Im sure i actually feel the (prejudicial) walls come tumbling down. (I must admit they do ask for the Jazz on photo shoots). So with some people you have to play a little game. I find that when you mess around with their perceptions technically theyre less inclined to "Show" you the basslines , More over i get asked for production input. But one must bat away the twats "getting a deal,Man". Your'e on a hiding to nothing then . outdated ideas from a era time forgot. But thats a whole new topic.....

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1356749851' post='1913289']
I don't get this at all. You wouldn't presume to comment on what gear the drummer or guitard are using, so why people think it's acceptable to make a decision about what instrument a bass player uses (when they know nothing about bass playing) is beyond me.
[/quote]

I wouldn't like to be in a band with a guitarist that has one of those pointy BC Rich's. To me, that's making a fairly firm statement about what image you like. Let's face it, somebody who likes a pointy guitar isn't really going to want to play nice slow melodic pieces.

Although, having said that, i know there is a sh*t storm coming now.

[Black Coffee]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1356930132' post='1915262']


I wouldn't like to be in a band with a guitarist that has one of those pointy BC Rich's. To me, that's making a fairly firm statement about what image you like. Let's face it, somebody who likes a pointy guitar isn't really going to want to play nice slow melodic pieces.

Although, having said that, i know there is a sh*t storm coming now.
[/quote]

Not quite a storm. Just wonderin if a gibson flyin V wud get the same response.
;-)

[basslondon]

[quote name='bassman344' timestamp='1356931818' post='1915266']
Not quite a storm. Just wonderin if a gibson flyin V wud get the same response.
;-)
[/quote]

Nah, Unfortunately Lenny Kravitz has made them kinda cool with a certain set of people.................

[Mog]

[quote name='gruffers' timestamp='1356921144' post='1915243']
If your in a gigging band with a particular image..... Just use the bass that fits that particular image.

It's not hard nor complicated. Just do it.

Nobody wants to see a Translucent Red Mega star flame top Bubinga Ebony Ernie Ball Bongo Bass in a indie/alt rock band. Nor some crusty rusty pre not much paint left since the dawn of time Precision Bass in a math tech metal fest.

Dress for the job in hand. It's all very simple.

End of the day, punters dont know any different, its's just your peers. Lets be honests the punters dont give a flying V what guitar you rock up with.


Anyone who argues that it's all about the sound and visuals are not important......I have only this..... Video killed the Radio star...Steinberger anyone????
[/quote]

I don't get why supposedly professional musicians place aesthetics above tonal quality. If you need to look good get the appropriate haircut and rags. If sounding and playing to the best of your ability requires or is enabled by an extended range instrument then there no reason why one shouldn't be used.
As you said the punters won't know the difference therefore the choice of instrument should be left to the person best suited to make the call, ie. the musician him/herself.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1356939938' post='1915294']


I don't get why supposedly professional musicians place aesthetics above tonal quality. If you need to look good get the appropriate haircut and rags. If sounding and playing to the best of your ability requires or is enabled by an extended range instrument then there no reason why one shouldn't be used.
As you said the punters won't know the difference therefore the choice of instrument should be left to the person best suited to make the call, ie. the musician him/herself.
[/quote]
Bravo.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1356939938' post='1915294']I don't get why supposedly professional musicians place aesthetics above tonal quality. [/quote]I don't think many professional musicians would.

[Mog]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1356940314' post='1915297']
I don't think many professional musicians would.
[/quote]

Agreed. But unfortunately as the thread clearly shows there obviously are.

[wateroftyne]

What - professional musicians who would use an instrument that wasn't up to the task, just because it looks the part? Examples, please.

[Chris2112]

I have never encountered anything like this in Newcastle. I used to play my Kubicki Ex Factor in a Shadows tribute band...if you can get away with a headless there you can get away with anything, anywhere...

[Mog]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1356940891' post='1915300']
What - professional musicians who would use an instrument that wasn't up to the task, just because it looks the part? Examples, please.
[/quote]

Back up the truck there lad, you're completely missing my point. The op refers to other musicians shunning extended range instruments because they don't fit a certain profile. My point is that what a bass looks like should be the least of a musicians worries and that another musician should not expect a bandmate to play an instrument which prohibits said bandmate from playing to the best of their ability.

I got a late booking on the 26th (about enough time to download the setlist and get to the venue) with a band who play 50's - 70's classic rock. I have the perfect bass for that aesthetically, a Framus Starbass. However as I knew only 60% of the set I decided to bring the 6 string as Im more comfortable improvising across the neck of the 6 rather than along the neck of a 4.

To me that's what a professional should do when booked for a dep job at short notice. Choose the bass which makes his employers sound as good as possible. If I had taken the Framus along it may have looked the part on the numbers I had to improvise over but it wouldn't have sounded anywhere near as good.

The same bass was played later that night with a different band who also needed a bassist at short notice. The only comments I received concerning the bass came after the gig when I went to get paid and have a pint. That came from a punter who said that it was an "impressive machine" and that it was "unusual to see a bass with so many strings". When asked why I played a 6string I told him that I find it easier to improvise and transpose on a 6string than on a 4string so I use it for covers gigs especially when there's a chance that a punter will ask to sing a song. He could see the merits of using it and he was a punter who in his own words "couldn't whistle a song to save his life".
When a punter can see the logic behind it Id expect a professional to have at least the same level of understanding.