Non 4 string social stigma?

[wateroftyne]

OK then - referring back to the OP's point - you do understand the distinction between depping for a covers band, and becoming a permanent member of a cohesive band performing original material where image is all, don't you?

Different beasts entirely, as I'm sure you're aware.

[Mog]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1356945201' post='1915333']
OK then - referring back to the OP's point - you do understand the distinction between depping for a covers band, and becoming a permanent member of a cohesive band performing original material where image is all, don't you?

Different beasts entirely, as I'm sure you're aware.
[/quote]

Of course. It doesn't mean I have to agree with the principle though. For my originals bands I use my Spectors (all 4 strings) because they suit the overall sound of the bands. It could be argued that they're a typical rock bass but image is not something which matters to me and I use them because to me they sound excellent and the company is a pleasure to deal with.

To be honest if a bassist had to use a fender jag because that's what the rest of the bands were using Id probably feel sorry for him or her as their individuality is quashed. Isn't that why we all started playing? To have an outlet for our creativity. To that end playing bass x in an originals band because it fits the perceived cliche of what a band should look like is polar to individualism.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1356946838' post='1915346']
Of course. It doesn't mean I have to agree with the principle though. For my originals bands I use my Spectors (all 4 strings) because they suit the overall sound of the bands. It could be argued that they're a typical rock bass but [b]image is not something which matters to me [/b]and I use them because to me they sound excellent and the company is a pleasure to deal with.

To be honest if a bassist had to use a fender jag because that's what the rest of the bands were using Id probably feel sorry for him or her as their individuality is quashed. Isn't that why we all started playing? To have an outlet for our creativity. To that end playing bass x in an originals band because it fits the perceived cliche of what a band should look like is polar to individualism.
[/quote]

I've highlighted part of your post which I think explains everything.

Edited December 31, 2012 by wateroftyne

[cloudburst]

+1 for both of Mog's posts. Speaking a lot of sense.

CB

[Roland Rock]

Mog's posts are entirely logical and understandable. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the band you played with were 'tolerating' the six string as it's just for that night. Also, from my experience, for every one punter who understands the logic of you having a six string, it's likely that there are several thinking what the hell a six string bass is doing at a 50s - 70s rock gig!

I'm not saying that these views are right, only that they exist.

[Mog]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1356946991' post='1915348']


I've highlighted part of your post which I think explains everything.
[/quote]

I get ya lad. We simply have different opinions on the subject. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[mrdreadful]

If you're doing classic rock covers why would you need to improvise? Genuinely confused.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1356948117' post='1915363']


I get ya lad. We simply have different opinions on the subject. Nothing wrong with that at all.
[/quote]

One of you is a musician while the other is an entertainer. Simple.
Entertainers don't like the idea though so they think they are musicians...hence the confusion.

A true musician doesn't approach music from an economical or an image-fixated standpoint. A musician cares about sound and creation, not how many chicks he'll have because he looked cool or the check he may get for moving his ass behind a fender.

f*** the music industry.

[cloudburst]

[quote name='mrdreadful' timestamp='1356948618' post='1915368']
If you're doing classic rock covers why would you need to improvise? Genuinely confused.
[/quote]

To make them bearable. To stop yourself going to sleep. To get through those that (shock) you don't know, haven't played before and haven't had the time to learn before the impromptu gig.

CB

Edited December 31, 2012 by cloudburst

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='mrdreadful' timestamp='1356948618' post='1915368']
If you're doing classic rock covers why would you need to improvise? Genuinely confused.
[/quote]
Really?

This for me is where the ERB is king, never mind dropped A tuning doom jazz or whatever, give me the key that you do a well known song in and I am away, the 5 makes it so much easier once you get your head around the playing off the E on the B string thing.

Edited December 31, 2012 by stingrayPete1977

[Mog]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1356947926' post='1915360']
Mog's posts are entirely logical and understandable. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the band you played with were 'tolerating' the six string as it's just for that night. Also, from my experience, for every one punter who understands the logic of you having a six string, it's likely that there are several thinking what the hell a six string bass is doing at a 50s - 70s rock gig!

I'm not saying that these views are right, only that they exist.
[/quote]

Aye Im sure there was, judging by some of the initial looks as I was setting up but I usually generate those anyway being a short arsed, long haired, flared jeans wearing hobbit.

Luckily both bands on the night in question contained members who's ages ranged from mid thirties to late fifties. I found that anti anything that isn't a four string comments are the speciality of
over-opinionated part timers and bedroom rockgods in their late teens/twenties. These same people never seem to turn up at the jam nights we organise for some reason though. I usually bring the 6 and a 4 to cover everyone's preferences. I wonder if they've something to hide?

[gruffers]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1356939938' post='1915294']
I don't get why supposedly professional musicians place aesthetics above tonal quality. If you need to look good get the appropriate haircut and rags. If sounding and playing to the best of your ability requires or is enabled by an extended range instrument then there no reason why one shouldn't be used.
As you said the punters won't know the difference therefore the choice of instrument should be left to the person best suited to make the call, ie. the musician him/herself.
[/quote]

Yes but the OP was getting turned away from bands. Bands can quite often have a gang mentality everyone wears a leather jacket. The look of the instrument is an extension of that. That said. I'm pretty sure a decent bassist could sneak a subtle lakland jazz 5 string type past most extended range haters. I hear these basses are pretty decent and would suffice tonally?

Surely most pros would carry at least 1 four string in there arsenal anyway? If the OP only has 1 bass and it's a 5 then what to do?

Edited December 31, 2012 by gruffers

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1356948857' post='1915375']


One of you is a musician while the other is an entertainer. Simple.
Entertainers don't like the idea though so they think they are musicians...hence the confusion.

A true musician doesn't approach music from an economical or an image-fixated standpoint. A musician cares about sound and creation, not how many chicks he'll have because he looked cool or the check he may get for moving his ass behind a fender.

f*** the music industry.
[/quote]

Yeah! Stick it to the man! I bet you're a hoot at parties.

[Mog]

[quote name='mrdreadful' timestamp='1356948618' post='1915368']
If you're doing classic rock covers why would you need to improvise? Genuinely confused.
[/quote]

I got the booking at around 4.30 for the first gig which was at 6pm that evening in a venue 40km away. Of the 30 odd songs on the setlist I received a few minutes after taking the call there were maybe 12 which I didn't know how to play. At the venue I asked the band what key they played those songs in and threw together a baseline for each. Some totally improvised, some containing basslines pieced together from what I knew/remembered from radio etc.

I don't see where the confusion stems from. It's impossible to learn every song that a band might play ergo being able to improvise a suitable bassline on the fly and to be able to do so comfortably is important to me as a session player.

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1356950123' post='1915396']


Yeah! Stick it to the man! I bet you're a hoot at parties.
[/quote]

:-D
Yeah, WOT, what you doing on a forum for musicians anyway? Get your ass over to Entertainerchat ;-)

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1356948857' post='1915375']
One of you is a musician while the other is an entertainer. Simple.
Entertainers don't like the idea though so they think they are musicians...hence the confusion.

A true musician doesn't approach music from an economical or an image-fixated standpoint. A musician cares about sound and creation, not how many chicks he'll have because he looked cool or the check he may get for moving his ass behind a fender.

f*** the music industry.
[/quote]

What a ridiculously arrogant and pretentious post! Why on earth can't a musician be an entertainer? It's art, and art is there to be appreciated/enjoyed, and if you are appreciating/enjoying something then it is entertaining.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1356950470' post='1915404']


What a ridiculously arrogant and pretentious post! Why on earth can't a musician be an entertainer? It's art, and art is there to be appreciated/enjoyed, and if you are appreciating/enjoying something then it is entertaining.
[/quote]
There's an enormous difference between entertaining as a clown with an instrument in your hands and entertaining as the natural result of people enjoying your creativity. One is a whore, the other an artist.
But then again laziness and lack of skills will always try to justify themselves. The repugnantly low musical level we see all around is a direct result of this mediocre and confused mentality.

[wateroftyne]

Don't feed the troll, folks...

[Antiloco]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1356952871' post='1915435']
Don't feed the troll, folks...
[/quote]
We know were you stand. No need to be offensive in an individual manner.

[TRBboy]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1356948857' post='1915375']


One of you is a musician while the other is an entertainer. Simple.
Entertainers don't like the idea though so they think they are musicians...hence the confusion.

A true musician doesn't approach music from an economical or an image-fixated standpoint. A musician cares about sound and creation, not how many chicks he'll have because he looked cool or the check he may get for moving his ass behind a fender.

f*** the music industry.
[/quote]

I thought that music was supposed to be fun and entertaining for both the player and the listener/audience? I don't care about looking fashionable, chicks, money, whatever, I just play because I love playing! Why do you play!? A musician IS an entertainer, especially from a live performance perspective; why would anyone bother going to SEE live music if it wasn't entertaining?

Back OT, I've never had any trouble getting gigs playing a 5er or any of the 4's I've had, but to be honest chances are that any prospective band that wanted me to look like a chart pop group wouldn't be my cup of tea musically. If I got a call for a gig with a band that was well enough paying to give up the day job, I'd wear whatever they wanted me to and buy a different bass if necessary (although it would probably be a Sandberg California)! I'd rather be playing music for a living instead of sat behind a desk, even if it meant making a few compromises!

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1356953452' post='1915444']
We know were you stand. No need to be offensive in an individual manner.
[/quote]

"Et Tu Brute"

[chris_b]

Inti, you seem to have a very elitist attitude.

You'll probably play as many gigs in a year as I do in a week with that approach.

Seems like it's a win win situation for both of us.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1356953898' post='1915460']
Inti, you seem to have a very elitist attitude.

You'll probably play as many gigs in a year as I do in a week with that approach.

Seems like it's a win win situation for both of us.
[/quote]
Absolutely! One tries to better his field. The other doesn't give a damn but craves recognition anyway... Ironic isn't it? As I said before: laziness and lack of skills desperately searches for justification. Call me whatever you want, nazi, elitist, fascist, snob... I love music and I'm really tired of people raping this art in the name of entertainment.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Inti

[chris_b]

[quote name='mrdreadful' timestamp='1356948618' post='1915368']
....If you're doing classic rock covers why would you need to improvise? Genuinely confused....
[/quote]

You've confused me!

Do you really learn every note in a number and only ever play those notes, in the same order and never anything else?

Wow. You've a much better memory than me, a much higher boredom threshold and, it seems, a much lower need to express individuality in your playing.

[Bilbo]

I play a 4 but if anyone said that to me when I pulled out a 5-string I would put it back in the case and walk out, letting them know that they need to think about the things they say before they say them otherwise they may advertently put themselves at severe risk of looking like a bunch of morons.