Can you play what you imagine?

[jazzyvee]

There is a communication barrier between the bass lines I hear in my head and my fingers.

[Spoombung]

You don't need imagination or inspiration. That's a romantic concept.

This is how I do it:

1.put one note down.
2.Put another note down 5 seconds after the first one.
3.Put another down 5 seconds after that.
4. Think about adding other notes in the gaps
5. think about removing notes
6. Make sure it's playable.

I try to write with two instruments - the bass and something else. The bass isn't 'supporting' the other instrument. It's largely 'side by side'.

Hope this helps!

[Earbrass]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1348098812' post='1809438']
One of the reasons I've spent a lot of time working on my technique and studying music is because I want to be
able to play ideas that I hear.
[/quote]

I think this is a key point; the more technique one has, the easier and more fluent is the process of getting what's in one's head out into the world. Having played keyboards almost all my life, I can usually play what I hear in my head pretty easily, without thinking much about the mechanics of playing it. That process is a bit harder for me on bass, and a lot harder on melodeon, which I've only been playing for 3 years - I usually have to go away and work out how to play something on that. I find in general that the less technique I have on an instrument, the more my playing is determined by what comes easily to the fingers, rather than by what I can imagine.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Earbrass

[4 Strings]

This is an excellent question.

Working at the moment so can't read all the responses until later but dying to say that learning to play what I imagine has made me a much better player. Loads of little fills, grace notes etc I hear and, at some stage, decided to actually play that. Doesn't always happen first time but a little determination and I find a way, hence improving. This also applies to doing covers, I hear a little something from, say Bernard Edwards, a detail perhaps which thrills and set about trying to achieve it, never as easy as it sounds.

Many of the Youtube vids don't seem to get to a lot of these levels of detail (thejamersonhook chap excepted), but I think its all in the detail and if your hear detail in your head for your own playing, I'd encourage anyone to spend a bit of time learning to translate into finger action. It never gets easy but does get less hard.

[charic]

I find I work best when I'm not thinking at all

I've written some of my best stuff while talking to someone while a bass was just in my hands and generally speaking when I play keyboard my mind turns off pretty much completely.

[daz]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1348125760' post='1809520']
I can make up and hum a bassline to myself but I can't just play it straight away, I have to work it out on the fretboard first and then learn it.

I could never do that 'two soloists' thing where a guitarist plays a line and then the other copies it (unless it was completely rehearsed) because I'm just not quick enough to play what I can hear - there's always a learn/rehearse stage for me.

That doesn't mean that I can't jam, but I am then limited to a few chops and I generally get frustrated that I don't have more.
More work needed I guess!
[/quote]

Indeed. I find it impossible to get near the copy what you hear straight away, thing (Which is what I have always wanted to do, and remember mentioning to my old bass teacher, when he asked me at the first lesson what I actually wanted to learn. Quite a tall order I suppose)

This seems to me to be much more difficult than [i]playing what one imagines[/i]. Although I couldn't tell you why it seems that way. Unless its because I don't imagine complex stuff as I know I cant play it ??

But since about 6 months ago I have found that, when trying to copy something I have just heard, my fingers sometimes travel to the correct intervals without me thinking about it. (Although sometimes in the wrong key) I recall clearly the [i]Father Ted [/i]theme tune was the first time this happened. After just watching it on TV

I clearly remember being very happy that evening, as I knew that I had finally the first step from learner to the next level. Its only since I have been doing this that I have realized the[i] real [/i]importance of learning scales and modes.

Edited September 20, 2012 by daz

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1348125760' post='1809520']
.....
I could never do that 'two soloists' thing where a guitarist plays a line and then the other copies it (unless it was completely rehearsed) because I'm just not quick enough to play what I can hear - there's always a learn/rehearse stage for me.
......
[/quote]

That's easily fixed, just put the radio on, or your iPod on shuffle and play along with the melody. Don't get hung up on getting it perfect, just do loads of songs for maybe 15 - 30 mins a day. Before long your fingers will start to find the right notes without you having to think about them. Also some interval ear training will help enormously.

When I was away from my bass, I'd have a tune in my head and try to imagine where the notes were on the bass by thinking about the intervals in the phrases. And then when I got back to my bass I could pretty much play it, usually in the wrong key!

You'll be surprised how quickly you'll progress and how much easier it is to start playing what's in your imagination without having to work it out first.

Edit: Blimey, Daz was thinking the same thing at the same time!

Edited September 20, 2012 by Fat Rich

[JTUK]

Not quite sure how it works but I generally play what I hear and it may be I'll play those pieces that I noodle around on so they sound instinctive but
I am always listening to the track and how it is is moving so I want to be able to add to that as and when so in that sense I'll play what comes to me and
how I feel at that point.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1348132417' post='1809649']
That's easily fixed, just put the radio on, or your iPod on shuffle and play along with the melody. Don't get hung up on getting it perfect, just do loads of songs for maybe 15 - 30 mins a day. Before long your fingers will start to find the right notes without you having to think about them. Also some interval ear training will help enormously.

[b]When I was away from my bass, I'd have a tune in my head and try to imagine where the notes were on the bass by thinking about the intervals in the phrases. And then when I got back to my bass I could pretty much play it, usually in the wrong key![/b]

You'll be surprised how quickly you'll progress and how much easier it is to start playing what's in your imagination without having to work it out first.

Edit: Blimey, Daz was thinking the same thing at the same time!
[/quote]

That's exactly what I do too. It's really good training away from your bass.

[LiamPodmore]

I don't always immediately play what i'm thinking, i write it out in Guitar Pro to see how it sounds before i grab my bass, except obviously when it's writing a new song with the band, then i usually end up playing what my singer hears, with my own little twists (Or some cases, very big twists).

Liam

[BigRedX]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1348094865' post='1809383']
I'm generally an 'imagine first, learn later' type. I want my music to represent ME, not my limited skills on instruments. If I imagine a bass line I can't play, I know it's good enough if it makes me want to put the effort in to learn how to play it.

Ears are more important than hands, or gear. I hear dynamics, and I want to get as close as possible to them when I actually play. It often surprises me how few nuances bassists use to get dynamics and let the song breathe, how little space is used.

So I'm wondering if your fingers lead you, or if your musical mind does. And what you do to play THROUGH your bass rather than ON it.
[/quote]

This is exactly how I write. I hear all the parts in my head and it's just a question of getting them out to my fingers.

The same goes when working out a bass line for a song one of my band members has written. I'll start off with simple root notes for the chords and maybe doubling up on a riff. By the second or third run through I can hear in my head the extra notes I want to add and any that I'm already playing that don't need to be there. Of course the bass line will continue to develop with the sing as the other parts settle down - in particular the drums and vocals.

By now I'm at the stage where most of the stuff that I can imagine but can't yet play doesn't take me too long to master. I can see the value in some of what Doddy says about technique an practice, but personally I've never been very motivated to learn or practice things that don't have an immediate and specific use to me. I'm sure that when I am imagining what I want to play my subconscious is working from a set ideas it already knows, but IMO this a bigger set that what my fingers already do and it will continue to grow every time I hear something new and a far more rapid rate than any amount of pure practice can achieve. I'd rather spend the time writing some more songs.

[DaveFry]

( Retired piano player learning bass here ; )

I guess it is one of those things that get easier the more you do it .
One handy trick is to imagine " louder " ( in your head , that is ) , and to make that imagination so compelling that the fingers have to follow ;
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_7DgCrziI8[/media]

[Adrenochrome]

In the days when I used to write original music, a few melodies and ideas came into my head first but I think more were from general noodling and jamming with others.
I'm sure the more creative types do have ideas just popping into their heads.

[cheddatom]

most of my best ideas actually start with beats, then bass, then a melody

[LiamPodmore]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1348136003' post='1809720']
most of my best ideas actually start with beats, then bass, then a melody
[/quote]

I'm very much the same. I like to build things up from the bass, and also threw a rather tasty beat into Guitar Pro last night so that should occupy me for a week or two.

Liam

[Gust0o]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1348125629' post='1809519']
Interesting question! I am actually more of a "rhythm" bass player. I don't often think in terms of melody or harmony, unless there is a string melody already there and I want to counter it...

I stick with the what the drummer is playing to a far greater degree, which kind of limits me but also frees me. It's amazing what you can accomplish in terms of syncopation by NOT playing on certain beats or notes. That is what makes the track live and breathe IMO. It also gives the more melodic instruments more options...
[/quote]

It sounds like I have a very similar technique. I like to imagine the beat, and go with that - which leads nicely into what the rhythm guitar might be doing alongside me; then I let the others in the band work up the lead and vocal melodies, and then might return to the bass line to see if I need to do anything a little different to play off against it.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1348136003' post='1809720']
most of my best ideas actually start with beats, then bass, then a melody
[/quote]

When I'm writing those three things are so intrinsically linked that they all develop at the same time.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='DaveFry' timestamp='1348134563' post='1809695'] ( Retired piano player learning bass here ; ) I guess it is one of those things that get easier the more you do it . One handy trick is to imagine " louder " ( in your head , that is ) , and to make that imagination so compelling that the fingers have to follow ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_7DgCrziI8 [/quote]

Thanks for this, fascinating stuff, encouraging too, can't help but be influenced by it.

(Loved the piano lick by someone who doesn't practice them!)

[fumps]

The answer to the OP Nige is "No"
I cant actually play what I can hear in my mind, I have a reoccurring bass line at the moment in my mind that i cannot work out. it is a nice steady piece but just cant get it right. It's been like this for me all my life since i've been playing bass.

Thats why a few months ago I decided to try and learn some theory to try & work out how to do it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1348137178' post='1809744']
The answer to the OP Nige is "No"
I cant actually play what I can hear in my mind, I have a reoccurring bass line at the moment in my mind that i cannot work out. it is a nice steady piece but just cant get it right. It's been like this for me all my life since i've been playing bass.

Thats why a few months ago I decided to try and learn some theory to try & work out how to do it.
[/quote]

To put a positive spin on this, Gav, if your imagination is ahead of your fingers you're alright mate, rejoice!

[fumps]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1348139381' post='1809791']
To put a positive spin on this, Gav, if your imagination is ahead of your fingers you're alright mate, rejoice!
[/quote]
lol
I rejoice in my mind every day ........lol

I can find it a little frustrating at times, but then again the laws of physics does not keep up with my imagination either

[Spoombung]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1348134470' post='1809692']
This is exactly how I write. I hear all the parts in my head and it's just a question of getting them out to my fingers.


[/quote]

Interesting. I've never heard parts in my head - ever. Writing, for me, seems to be about emptying my head, strangely enough, then shuffling things around. Absolutely ZERO inspiration: it's the only way to go, kidz.

[51m0n]

[quote name='DaveFry' timestamp='1348134563' post='1809695']
( Retired piano player learning bass here ; )

I guess it is one of those things that get easier the more you do it .
One handy trick is to imagine " louder " ( in your head , that is ) , and to make that imagination so compelling that the fingers have to follow ;
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_7DgCrziI8[/media]
[/quote]

That is an absolutely brilliant video - thanks!

[4000]

[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1348143126' post='1809903']
Interesting. I've never heard parts in my head - ever. Writing, for me, seems to be about emptying my head, strangely enough, then shuffling things around. Absolutely ZERO inspiration: it's the only way to go, kidz.
[/quote]

Strange! Almost everything comes from my head. I hear whole songs, sections of songs, pieces of music from the sublime to the ridiculous, etc etc and then try and translate those into actual sound. My head is actually full of music (and seldom other people's music) pretty much 24/7, which is why I write. I have to, to get it out!

Occasionally I play something on the instrument first and it works, but generally I imagine first and play later.

[51m0n]

I can play pretty much whatever I am likely to imagine as a bassline, but that may be because my imagination is so defined by what I have played and worked out before for the last 20 odd years....