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Clarky72

Class D. Going back to the traditional ways now...

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[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1345572781' post='1779033']
I recorded some tracks in the studio last week, using a Fender Bassman head, and an Ampeg SVT 410HE cab. I can`t lift the heavy stuff anymore, but as soon as I heard that sound, knew I had to go back to somewhere near it, so goodbye to Gallien Krueger MB Fusion 500 & Schroeder BMF 410, hello to Ampeg PF500 & PF410HLF.

The GK/Schro was a great setup, but after hearing the old-school tones, I realised my set-up was far too modern for me, and I needed to go "home". I know it`s still Class D, but the PF has to be the warmest Class D I`ve encountered (maybe OTB?) and gives a much more rounded old-school tone than any others I`ve used.
[/quote]

Thats just how I felt Lozz, I just missed that dirty old rock'n'roll tone. The clinical sound of the Genz Benz just didn't work for me....

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[quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1345583234' post='1779205']
Thats just how I felt Lozz, I just missed that dirty old rock'n'roll tone. The clinical sound of the Genz Benz just didn't work for me....
[/quote]I think the clinical sound is to do with the Shuttle rather than GB generally. As before my Streamliner is a very different beast and a lot warmer.

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[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1345636850' post='1779755']
I think the clinical sound is to do with the Shuttle rather than GB generally. As before my Streamliner is a very different beast and a lot warmer.
[/quote] Fair enough, I havent tried the Streamline, only the Shuttle... :)

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yes been there too - went from an old Peavey Firebass 4x10 and 1x15 that I used for years to a Barefaced Super twelve and EA i800. Super light, hated the sound. Swapped for a Mark Bass, hated it, tried a Orange Terror and hated that as well. Borrowed an old ABM ashdown for a gig and hey presto sounds awesome. £80 later from ebay I have an old heavy amp into a new lightweight speaker - best of both worlds. Depends on what you play and what you hear probably but to me older amps are just smoother, creamier, fuller and sound louder to me.

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1345553317' post='1778728']
From reading reviews in Talkbass a lot of players didn't get along with the STL 6. The STL 9 seemed to be the star in that range.
[/quote]

I love my 9 - I'm very tempted to investigate TC gear as well now as I just got a RS112 and love it - but the 9 is just a great, great amp - simple to use and sounds wicked - with some serious grunt to boot...

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When i tried to break away from MarkBass i got a GK 1001-RBII. I hated it. I felt compared to the SA450 it sounded thin, lacked the punch i was used to and seemed to need pushing to get the volume i was used to (and the GK is rated slightly higher).
This obviously has nothing to do with class D amps as neither have them, its just down to different tones for whatever reason. If you like the GK tone then the cleaner, more polite GB tone is the issue, not the power stage IMO.

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Perhaps it's something we could try to A/B at the SE Bash in Sept, even down to the Shuttle & Streamliner models?

Like I said before I did that through my S12T in store before getting the Streamliner and the differene was huge.

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Although I've just picked up a B15N for home use I wouldn't be without my Tone Hammer out of the house. I've tried quite a few class D heads and the TH500 is by far my favourite, especially with a pair of matching Aguilar SL112 speakers :)

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I went backwards too, I had a shuttle 9.0 and a barefaced midget t/compact stack, great for the carrying but I just didn't like the sound, no matter what I tried it just didn't sound like 'me'. No matter what I did, despite all the theory saying otherwise, it sounded like a single 12" and an old school 15". Neither of which I like.
Now I'm on a markbass MoMark 800 and have gone back to 10's with a pair of Bergantino AE210's and couldn't be happier. Admittedly it's not a full step back to my old trace stack (AH400smx, two 4x10's and a bright box!) but it's a lot heavier, but worth the trade off in terms of sound quality IME, IMHO, YMMV etc

Edited by gafbass02

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I've benefitted from Lozz's decision to change his set up. I used his old GK MB Fusion for the first time at practice last night and I have to say, its exactly the sound I want. I'm playing through a BF Compact (with another on the way). I was quite happy with my PF500 too, but the GK has much better mids, and the carefully overdriven sound I got from channel B was fantastic. Overall I'd say its very close to the GK 700RB I had until a year ago.

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[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1345648117' post='1779988']
When i tried to break away from MarkBass i got a GK 1001-RBII. I hated it. I felt compared to the SA450 it sounded thin, lacked the punch i was used to and seemed to need pushing to get the volume i was used to (and the GK is rated slightly higher).
This obviously has nothing to do with class D amps as neither have them, its just down to different tones for whatever reason. If you like the GK tone then the cleaner, more polite GB tone is the issue, not the power stage IMO.
[/quote]

Agreed!

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[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1345565254' post='1778938']
I've said it before, but I think there's a characteristic of the B&O modules these amps use, either tonal or dynamic, that doesn't sit right with me. I can't quite put my finger on it.
[/quote] I was about to reply and agree when I thought of something... that Bigredx brought up... but are they all the same... and also do they all map the power out in the same way? We can tell from the whole TC RH450 not being 450 that there is some pretty clever stuff going on in the design of these amps, so I'm thinking not all of them will approach it the same way.... but as BigRedx says- why are we presuming they all use the same unit (though they may be)
I never liked the sound of Markbass, no idea why but I put that down to the sound of the amp rather than the power unit. The TC electronics stuff I tried just had a load of compression going on it felt like... again is that the amp? My puma 1000.... I like.
[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1345569880' post='1778989']
Surely not all class D amps use the same power module?

IMO class D amps are just like any other - some are right for you some aren't. I've owned three, two of them were pretty underwhelming (Ashdown Superfly and a 500+500W power amp). However the one I have now -Tech Soundsystems Black Cat) is the best sounding bass amp I've ever owned. It brings out the individuality of each bass while adding something to make them all sound great.

And just to prove that we are all different, there's a GK amp at the rehearsal rooms I sometimes use and it's the only amp there that I have been unable to get a sound I liked out of.
[/quote] Maybe tecamp use a different modual - or know how to use it well. I find similar with my Puma 1000. Great wee compressor on it too.

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I can understand that class Ds don't suit some people. Even if it's just psycological that you feel a small amp doesn't give you the tone you want, it's only up to you whether you go for a light amp or a heavy one, so just get what suits you best.

I have an MB Fusion and a 2001RB-II, very different sounding amps even though they both have that lovely inherant GK tone. I put a lot of that down to the power amp. Obviously they have very different preamp sections too, but they're made by the same people with the same design aims in mind. A lot of the GK tone is in how the power amp works anyway apparently so that makes sense to me.

I've always found GKs to be very versatile, but if you don't like the sound (like BRX), there's nothing you can do to them that will make you like it. If you do like the sound, then you'll never need another amp, whatever you end up playing.

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I've owned both GK and GB.

The GK is warmer but also pretty aggressive in the treble. Good for rock bassists who use a pick.
The Shuttle is more neutral sounding to my ears. It doesn't colour the sound so I can use different basses with it.

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I've got a GK Fusion 550 and a GK MB Fusion. I thought having got the MB originally as a back up it might replace the big guy as first choice - but no. Back up it will remain. Definitely not the tone though. I can get a great tone out of the MB - especially channel B when its clipping. And its not volume as the MB is plenty loud. Not easy to describe (and I think WoT has alluded to something similar) - I just think the 550 has more "grunt" or "heft" to the sound. It seems "thicker" if that makes any sense. There's something going on with the dynamics when I'm playing that I prefer over the MB.

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[quote name='JD1' timestamp='1345786459' post='1781467']
I've got a GK Fusion 550 and a GK MB Fusion. I thought having got the MB originally as a back up it might replace the big guy as first choice - but no. Back up it will remain. Definitely not the tone though. I can get a great tone out of the MB - especially channel B when its clipping. And its not volume as the MB is plenty loud. Not easy to describe (and I think WoT has alluded to something similar) - I just think the 550 has more "grunt" or "heft" to the sound. It seems "thicker" if that makes any sense. There's something going on with the dynamics when I'm playing that I prefer over the MB.
[/quote]

Yip... it's almost like there's a dynamic sacrifice to maintain the loudness when played at volume.

The RH450 output 'scandal' (for want of a better word) reinforced my suspicions. It's likely that Genz et al. use similar power management - after all, it's the same power module.

It's fair to say that some people are bothered by it, but not others.

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Just to be clear I am assuming we are talking about heads with the digital switch mode power SUPPLY modules, and not those with a digital power AMPLIFIER section also?

The lm2 an 3 have dig power supply but analogue power amp section for example, while the f1 has both digital supply and amp sections.

Just think we need to clarify, as it seems it must be the supply unit that is leaving people strangely dis-satisfied?...

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A mate has a Warwick RockBass, which sounds good through my Selmer T'n'B 50 coupled to an old Marshall 4x15 cab thats had 2 drivers replaced on a new baffle with Celestion 10" BG80s. That's when he played it at my place. His own rig is Ashdown: a 1x15 cab with a 2x12, and a tiny little Class D box that says MIB on it. His rig sounds good too. Class D is said by some to be more valve-ish, I'm not entirely sure that extends to how the circuit behaves under overload/clipping conditions, but what I've heard of this MIB jobby is a good clean & warm bass sound with the right amount of punch in it. I think I'd buy into or at least investigate seriously Class D on the strength of that if I were in the market for a new bass rig.

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