How to actually write Basslines.....??

[Prime_BASS]

There is countless free material on the internet telling us how to play the instrument, techniques and increases bass vocabulary, but this is only half of it.....

I have looked a fair bit, and done a forum search but there doesn't seem to be any material on how to write basslines, or at least apppropriate basslines. How to go about it? What notes to use? What not to use? When not to play? When you can I do a fill?

It seems to me that this would be fairly over done topic. Sure enough if I started with 'How do I write standard Rock bassline?', everyone would chime in with standard bumping 8ths, but it's just not as simple as that.

Because I played guitar before Bass(been playing bass fopr 4 years now exclusively) I feel I am pretty intermediate and can play a lot of stuff that is difficult, but my actual writing ability isn't great.

I still don't know when to go crazy, when to play syncopated, when to just not play.

Don't get me wrong, I am not slapping the hell out of the bass while it is clearly a very mellow song. I know I can't have abass grandmaster hovering over me telling what not to play and what to play.

I can see a load of responses saying 'feel' and all that, but even with 'feel' how do I really know what is right for a song, and what isn't?

[foal30]

you are correct, the answer is feel.
Play with conviction or failing that , love

[steve-bbb]

its all about intuition and its often a very subconscious process - sure a teacher could show you all the basic elements and rudiments of harmony but it seems to be one of those things that the more effort you put in to constructing a bass line the more contrived it can often sound- personally if im trying to figure a bass line for a pattern i will give it no more than about 2 or 3 minutes - if i havent cracked it in that time i leave it alone and come back to it after a nice cup of tea and a sit down

more spontenaeity and intuition and less conscious deliberation

how do you teach that? like many things involving artistic/creative process i guess you cant - but you can teach and learn the priniciples that surround it all and then just let your intuition do its job without your ego interferring

[flyfisher]

Isn't the real beauty of music the fact that it can't be boiled down to a few simple rules and formulae?

Or, rather, it can but the results are not satisfying. Thus, a drum machine is a poor substitute for a good drummer and similarly for auto-generated bass lines. Take the emotion out of music and what's the point?

[paul torch]

It may be obvious, but for me it goes hand in hand with that the drummer is doing. Get the groove going with the drums first then build on the "riff". I tend to think of combining the major scale with the relative minor.

[JakeBrownBass]

If your ears not leading you to the writing the lines you want then hows your theory?

Understanding how chords are put together and then the way they are related in a progression is the fundamentals of harmony.

It sounds 'boring' but have a look at chord tones to get an idea of whats what. There's a reason walking bass lines work.

Syncopation, when to play and when not to play is a group effort. Whats the kick drum doing, what's the melody doing. If you take a lead, the drummer should hear and follow and vice versa.

[BigRedX]

Put your bass down. Listen to what the rest of the instruments are doing paying particular attention to the drums and vocals. Sing the bass line (in your head if your actual singing's not very good). Now pick up your bass and play what you've been singing.

[crez5150]

There are no 'Rules'..... Play what you feel.

[BassTractor]

That's a great question on a very interesting topic, I think.

Since I know nothing about you, some of what follows may sounds condescending. Of course that's not my intention, but as said, I just don't know the first thing about you.

Anyway, I simply interpret what you wrote as expression of your feeling somewhat lost whilst at the same time knowing that you're a musical and able person. If that's correct, then I think you need some successes in order to overcome this. Theoretical training is not the way forward imho, as it can tend to overwhelm the student. IMHO, good theory is the theory you learn when you nod your head thinking: "Yup! That's correct."


From my outlook, the first rather impromptu questions would be:
Can you hear the music, or parts of it, in your head?
Can you just repeat bits, like one line, "eternally" and get a feel for a bass line's character?
Can you experiment in your head with different types of bass lines on those bits? I don't mean this as in litteral tones, but more like a conveyed atmosphere?
Can you translate that atmosphere into (some) specific tones?
In case of covers: have you tried to listen to different versions of the song, or other songs in the same style, in order to get some inspiration or ideas?


If you wish, you can answer these questions, and I'll do some more thinking on steps to take. In the mean time, I might find out my questions are bollocks, and then I'll get back to them.

I'll leave it at that for now. Others may come with far better approaches, and also, I'd like not to go too far right away.

[charic]

I write my best lines when I'm holding the bass but not thinking and am just noodling... just ask Dood... I probably drove him mad

[EmmettC]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1339142056' post='1684160']
Put your bass down. Listen to what the rest of the instruments are doing paying particular attention to the drums and vocals. Sing the bass line (in your head if your actual singing's not very good). Now pick up your bass and play what you've been singing.
[/quote]

+1

This also stops you just playing the same patterns over every song.

[paul torch]

Totally agree with putting the bass down, even going into another room and listen while the rest of the band are going through the song. Get the bass pattern in your head without thinking about notes, then go back in and play what's in your head.

[steve]

[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1339140794' post='1684148']
If your ears not leading you to the writing the lines you want then hows your theory?

Understanding how chords are put together and then the way they are related in a progression is the fundamentals of harmony.

It sounds 'boring' but have a look at chord tones to get an idea of whats what. There's a reason walking bass lines work.

Syncopation, when to play and when not to play is a group effort. Whats the kick drum doing, what's the melody doing. If you take a lead, the drummer should hear and follow and vice versa.
[/quote]
[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1339142056' post='1684160']
Put your bass down. Listen to what the rest of the instruments are doing paying particular attention to the drums and vocals. Sing the bass line (in your head if your actual singing's not very good). Now pick up your bass and play what you've been singing.
[/quote]

+1, also think about where you are in the song and how you want that part to sound in relation to the other parts, i.e. where the song builds etc

[ahpook]

[quote name='EmmettC' timestamp='1339144817' post='1684204']
+1

This also stops you just playing the same patterns over every song.
[/quote]

plus the one

worst thing you can do imho is to pick up your bass when you're trying to figure out a new bassline.

listening is the 1st step...

[oggiesnr]

Agree with much of what has been said, I would add - listen to a lot of different basslines from different genres critically, "what are they doing? what is the band doing? why does this work? why does this sound odd?" It all adds to the palette of ideas that you can draw on (note - not copy) when you write your own.

I've noticed that since I got my DB and started listening to more jazz and rockabilly, my basslines have changed even though what I'm playing is mainly folk based.

Steve

[brensabre79]

It's all a matter of taste and style really, given a song without a bassline, there are familiar patterns we would all follow, I'm sure we'd all do it slightly differently, in our own way. But you will not find a Youtube tutorial on how to learn good taste or style.
All the technique in the world is useless if you have no groove, and yet there are players out there who can't even manage a major scale who would come up with the most fitting bass line for our imaginary tune, not fancy but one that just works.

I think its a bit like the old saying that money can't buy you class. You either have it or you don't and it has little to do with how much money you have!

[thunderbird13]

Good thread - This is something I've been thinking about for a while now. One question I have is do you aim to create a bassline which, although fits into the song has a seperate and distinct melody and structure to it and could almost be a standalone melody ( I suppose you would call it counterpoint ) or do you write something which blends into the rest of the insturments.

[Twigman]

[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1339146824' post='1684242']
One question I have is do you aim to create a bassline which, although fits into the song has a seperate and distinct melody and structure to it and could almost be a standalone melody ( I suppose you would call it counterpoint ) or do you write something which blends into the rest of the insturments.
[/quote]
What does the song need?


I often start with the bassline and build everything else around that!

For example in this:[url="http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_13198714"] www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_13198714[/url] I started with the bass chords that come in from 2.04 and built the whole of the rest of the song around them.

Those chords just came from a casual pick the bass up and start playing while watching telly!

Edited June 8, 2012 by Twigman

[Judo Chop]

Well I start by figuring out what the guitarist is playing, and then just play root notes and listen to what the drummer is doing until I can hear what I want to play in my head.
It's quite hard to explain to someone how to do it because everyone probably has their own method.

[Doctor J]

There's physical technique and there's musical sense. One you get from repeating exercises, the other you get from not playing at all, instead it involves years of listening to all the other instruments apart from your own. One is more important than the other. Youtube is chock full of people with astounding physical technique but that's not the important one, imo. Of course, you've got to be able to play the killer bassline but the real skill is having the vision to put the right notes, rhythm and feel to create it in the first place.

[Hobbayne]

What I do if I,m stuck for ideas, is find a song with similar chord changes, not have to be same tempo or feel, and take some bits from each and create my own bassline.
You,ll be surprised that you dont need to keep to the root per chord plodding lines.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Jack Cahalane' timestamp='1339148860' post='1684293']
Well I start by figuring out what the guitarist is playing, and then just play root notes and listen to what the drummer is doing until I can hear what I want to play in my head.
[/quote]

This is a way I work a lot of the time. The trick is to keep it simple and don't fall into any standard patterns until you can hear the bass line in your head. Then get your fingers to play it.

IMO note choice has as much to do with the style of music you are playing as with pure theory. Music theory will get you most of the way there, but I always think the last part requires you to just listen to the song and play what sounds right.

[Lozz196]

In the originals band that I`m in, the singer/rhythm guitarist writes all the songs, and my way of writing the bassline is simply follow the chords with root-notes, until the whole band have "got" the song. From there, I listen to the areas where the drums are busy/quiet, and add my fills/runs/lines in those quieter spaces. No point in coming up with something that`s good if it will be overpowered if not placed correctly.

[OliverBlackman]

[b]LISTEN TO MUSIC[/b].... Analyse parts the you like, not just the bassline! Find out what scales, arpeggio's or chord tones are being played against the chord. Also rhythmically, where does it sit in the bar, is it syncopated? Then you can start working these idea's into your own basslines.

Without listening to lots of different music in detail your basslines are always going to be fairly limited

[OliverBlackman]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1339153827' post='1684421']
In the originals band that I`m in, the singer/rhythm guitarist writes all the songs, and my way of writing the bassline is simply follow the chords with root-notes, until the whole band have "got" the song. From there, I listen to the areas where the drums are busy/quiet, and add my fills/runs/lines in those quieter spaces. No point in coming up with something that`s good if it will be overpowered if not placed correctly.
[/quote]

admittedly in a rock/pop sense you don't want to overpower but in a lot of funk/ jazz it's a technique used to create a chaotic feel/ tension and then the release is when it simplifies.