hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 So, a mate booked a gig with his band which their bass player has since bailed out on, so he rings me and asks me if I would be prepared to do it. Knowing that his band play 80% of the stuff we do, I immediately say yes. What I later discover is that 80% of the songs that we have in common are in a different key. I know it shouldn't bother me, but it does, especially at such short notice. I've been playing most of these songs in their original key for about 15 years and get through them on auto pilot. I think it's actually worse having to play a song you know so well in a different key rather than learning a new one from scratch. I mean, who plays Disco Inferno in b flat for frak's sake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1321037414' post='1434788'] I mean, who plays Disco Inferno in b flat for frak's sake? [/quote] A band with a brass section! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 My band has a brass section and we play it in C, so it can't be that difficult! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1321037879' post='1434794'] My band has a brass section and we play it in C, so it can't be that difficult! [/quote] And C is the original key IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Hiram, I agree, and am total crap at transposing a song when i've learned it in its original key. I think the band's singer may be to blame in this case, perhaps? Some vocalists are more comfortable if the band tune down half a step, or have their own favourite keys to sing in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Yep I know the feeling. We do disco inferno in Eb as Tina Turner, starting the run down on F# on the G string, Last week our guitarist played the whole thing against me in a different key despite me holding up my bass and shouting Eb. What was more worrying was when he said why was I shouting Eb when he settled on the right key it was in E. His hearing loss must be worse than we thought. This week he played it just fine, and never mentioned last week. He also got me to learn Sweet Child of mine in C, then a year later, can we change to D. Fine but I have learned it with all these open notes. Un nerving to do 80% in a different key I would think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Drop your bass down a step. It's the only way to do it without getting confused! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Very true! I tune down half a step when i play Metallica - that's what they do themselves. An entire step would not be kind to the B (or A in this case!) string, though - it would vibrate at an uncomfortably low frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 [quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1321046508' post='1434961'] Very true! I tune down half a step when i play Metallica - that's what they do themselves. An entire step would not be kind to the B (or A in this case!) string, though - it would vibrate at an uncomfortably low frequency. [/quote] If your strings are a high gauge and you have an efficient enough amp, a low A can do wonderful things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 My amp is just a small practice one, so, erm, no, it's already hard enough to hear the damn B string properly in the regular tuning. Maybe one day, if I start playing in a band... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave D Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I can never understand when my band take a perfectly good song that is always played in E, and decide to play it in Eb instead. So whenever i'd play an open low E, i've got to go up almost an octave instead. Its not right!! I have such an aversion to Eb that i actually told a former female vocalist that i'd had a special bass made without any Eb notes on. The rest of the guys had a bit of a giggle, but we managed to keep it going for quite a few weeks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 My new cover band play everything either in Eb or drop C#.. works out pretty good as we play songs in a range of tunings from E to B. Its a happy medium, and I can do a whole set without changing basses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalMan Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Get the "different key" version regularly with the band I dep for. Generally just a tone difference, but it keeps me on my toes as muscle memory for the other key slips in if my mind wanders. The the proggy lot I am with do the full Wayward Son in A whilst my main lot do it in E and a shortened version. DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I was the same last week when I depped with a band. Loads of songs I'd played a thousand times but all up a tone. I think I had about 2 days notice to learn them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Its a bit of a pisser for sure, but the reality is that most singers have a fairly limited range, and the originals of most songs are done in a key to suit the singer. Hotel California is a good example, which Don Felder originally wrote in Cm. Don Henley couldn't sing in that key so it was changed to Bm for the recording. The point is that some bands will just not do songs that the singer can't manage others will detune to play the song in the original key, others will just play the song in standard tuning (for example we don't bother to detune to D# to play the GNR songs, but play it in the same fingerings as they did so our version of sweet child is in D instead of the original C#) Don't get me wrong, I feel for the OP, but it is just the way things are and if you're going to dep then chances are that some times you're going to have to play in unusual keys. Fortunately (IMO etc) the bass is the easiest instrument to do this on, and usually just means moving the whole pattern up or down a few frets - obviously working around open strings as necessary. Pity the poor brass section who will have to play a wholly new pattern that bears no relation to the one they may have learnt before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbyrne Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I've been changing the keys of songs to fit singers' ranges since I started playing (guitar) in 1960 - you get used to it. I see chords as visual patterns, to change key, move the pattern up or down the fretboard. Similar situation for bass. In our Blues band, we try to play in the original (recorded) key as much as possible, but we play a few to suit the singer. In our Middle-of-the-Road band, with female singer, changing the key is much more common. G, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 only 80% the guitarist/leader of the band i am in has the most well worn capo in the northern hemisphere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Warren - just out of interest who are you depping with? Anyone I'd like to see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I think the OP is concentrating too much on knowing where the notes go in a song rather than 'playing' it. If you think shape and intervals and can hear them...you don't need to concern yourself with what the notes are called. Common dep trick where people will throw you the same song...depending on the singer of the day...in all sorts of keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave D Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Our drummer never complains about key changes!! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 [size=4]To the OP; sounds like this is a bit of training that would be good for you. Good luck.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I've played with quite a few bands recently where they do Sweet Child of Mine in D so it was a bit of 'Underpants to Brown' last night with my own band trying to remember how to play it in B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 SC of M in D? U to B? LMAO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 The backline only get together for this little soire went very well today. I'm still not sure of the cause of all this key change nonsense, however, the vocalists were blamed in their absence! I don't have a problem playing songs in different keys as I have enough years experience to navigate my way around the fretboard. What I don't get is the difference between playing Sir Duke in B (original) and doing it one step down makes. I understand that allows the brass to play in concert C, but they were there today and said they don't get a shout in what key the songs are played in, so it must be down to the vocals. A bit odd they can't stretch to the original key, but hey ho, I would much rather play Sir Duke in B flat than Disco Inferno. Without dropping the tuning/changing bass I lose my lowest note (open E) in Disco Inferno. Going [i]up[/i] to the nearest E ruins the dynamics of the song. [i]That's[/i] what annoys me; the general acceptance of "just play it up the octave" when it should be the lowest note in the song. Perhaps I'm just too fussy? The other gems we had today was "I know it doesn't go like that in the original, but that's the way we do it", "I thought that was wrong when we learnt it and it's too late to change it now" and the classic "you just do what you normally do, it sounds better anyway" (which made me blurt out "I'm pretty sure that's what LaBelle thought when they wrote it"). Sometimes i just don't know when to keep my mouth shut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 D-tuner can help but I agree keys are changed too easily and often for no good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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