BottomE Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Here is something i have never encountered to this degree after 25 years of gigging. My covers band were doing a gig in a local pub last night. There is a song that has a bit where the bass drops out on the verse and comes back in again on the chorus with the first note being an F#. When i hit the F# it was like a bomb going off! Ok i know it was fireworks night but to my ears this note sounded twice as loud as any other note i played Next time around i thought ok i'll play it an octave up. Boom! Same problem. Every other note was fine - just F#. I tried to play with the EQ and this helped a little bit but the note was still way louder than all the rest? Any advice on what to do in this situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Play G♭ instead! I'll get me coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I've noticed this at a church I play at. I've always put it down to the frequency of the note matching the natural resonance of the room somehow. It was a bit disconcerting at first, as it was for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1320585593' post='1428549'] Play G♭ instead! I'll get me coat. [/quote] Never thought of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Yes, I experienced the same thing, although can't recall if it was the same note, at a depp gig back in the summer, playing on a wooden band stand. it was a sscarey moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 It's just one of 'those things' - I've always put it down to a sort of sympathetic resonance as the loud note varies with each venue. All I do is tweak it out as far as I reasonably can using EQ and play it a little gentler to compensate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 It's alright until you play Radar Love as there are a lot of F#'s in that one! Natural resonance can play havoc. Getting the rig off the ground can help, especially if you stand in front to disrupt the waveform. But if it is attuned to the building, then you just have to play through it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 It sounds like you're producing a note that is resonating in the room. I had a similar effect years ago when I had my Ibanez BTB and an Ashdown Electric Blue 150 in my bedroom, where I had a cabinet which was the length of the room and waleld with sliding mirrors. One of these mirrors used to resonate when I played a G note, and the metal frame would rattle like the wire off a snare drum! It really annoyed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Agreed with above. Getting your rig off the floor is a must, and perhaps swap places with a guitarist,you never know if it`s a wall near you that`s kicking it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 MB1. Attempting to play the legendary Dreaded Brown note eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Room resonance. I had it at a gig I played last week....annoyed the hell out of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Moving your cab will usually fix it, or move it to a different note. :/ As I understand it, it's because your cab is producing a wave which - when reflected back off a surface or surfaces - doubles in amplitude because the wavelength of the note is equal (or half, or a quarter of, or double...) to the distance from that surface, so the wave gets amplified by its own reflection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 In addition to room modes you may be exciting, there's a possibility that you're generating a standing wave. Easily done at around 50Hz (F#-ish), since that frequency's wavelength is about 8'. Just the height of a standard ceiling, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Usually happens to me on a B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ficelles Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1320584514' post='1428528'] Here is something i have never encountered to this degree after 25 years of gigging. My covers band were doing a gig in a local pub last night. There is a song that has a bit where the bass drops out on the verse and comes back in again on the chorus with the first note being an F#. When i hit the F# it was like a bomb going off! Ok i know it was fireworks night but to my ears this note sounded twice as loud as any other note i played Next time around i thought ok i'll play it an octave up. Boom! Same problem. Every other note was fine - just F#. I tried to play with the EQ and this helped a little bit but the note was still way louder than all the rest? Any advice on what to do in this situation? [/quote] If your graphic is accurate enough, take out 46.25 Hz a few dB. Or double that frequency, or 4 x etc. Somewhere in that room there are some nice parallel acoustically reflective surfaces around 7.46 metres apart and your F# is exciting that room mode (lucky old room mode I say). In all seriousness, deal with it with your playing technique. If you know it's F#, play the F# quieter. It sounds like an incredible demand on a bassist but the fact that you know what the problem is and where it is means you are more than halfway there. ficelles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ficelles Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='Lfalex v1.1' timestamp='1320605532' post='1428916'] In addition to room modes you may be exciting, there's a possibility that you're generating a standing wave. [/quote] Surely one and the same thing? ficelles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Some good tips thanks a lot. Would raising the cab a few inches make a difference or are we talking over a foot? Does the height that you raise the cab make any difference. I would have moved my rig but we were tight for space and we were already into the set before i realised. I did play F# more quietly when i knew it was coming. Thing is when you have played a song forever you forget that its a bunch of notes. It did make me think about the notes in the basslines again which i guess is a good thing. Here you go though. Nobody else seemed to flinch or wince as i did when it happened. They didn't notice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ficelles Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1320609485' post='1428983'] Some good tips thanks a lot. Would raising the cab a few inches make a difference or are we talking over a foot? Does the height that you raise the cab make any difference.[/quote] Raising the cab off the floor would make a difference mostly if the floor itself is part of the problem, which of course is not impossible! ficelles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 You could also try moving your cab backwards/forwards a bit to change the distance from the back wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 You're pretty stuffed. Its almost certainly a room node at about 47Hz as everyone said. Getting your rig off the floor wont do much, possibly moving it left to right or further or nearer the rear wall may be a good plan. If the front of your rig is about 65" off the back wall the reflection off it it will null with your rig at about 47Hz. That could help to tame the issue... Other than that you need a notch filter (there is one built in to the Digitech BP8 which was about the coolest thing I've seen ion a bass multifx ever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Raising your cab will only help if the issue is being caused by a coupling between cab and a resonant floor. Raised stages often have this problem. In which case something like the Auralex Gramma Pad will help no end. It does however sound more like a standing wave issue. Moving your cab or playing the problem note softer are the only answers. Sometimes only a small move is needed but on occasions a more radical change helps. Hardest part is getting band mates to understand. Must say that you've done well to avoid this for 25 yrs. I get this issue regularly - particularly in smaller venues. If F# is around 47HZ do people out there have rough frequencies for other notes? I personally would find it very helpful to know them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 [quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1320681078' post='1429870'] Raising your cab will only help if the issue is being caused by a coupling between cab and a resonant floor. Raised stages often have this problem. In which case something like the Auralex Gramma Pad will help no end. It does however sound more like a standing wave issue. Moving your cab or playing the problem note softer are the only answers. Sometimes only a small move is needed but on occasions a more radical change helps. Hardest part is getting band mates to understand. Must say that you've done well to avoid this for 25 yrs. I get this issue regularly - particularly in smaller venues. If F# is around 47HZ do people out there have rough frequencies for other notes? I personally would find it very helpful to know them. [/quote] Thanks I wouldn't say i have comletely avoided it for 25 years - just that its never been anywhere near as powerful and obvious as it was the other night. I chatted to the guitartist last night and he mentioned that there was a great big solid wooden table behind my cab about 12-15 inches away from the rear port on the cab. The table had been turned on its side and was therefore acting like a wall i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1320682011' post='1429895'] Thanks I wouldn't say i have comletely avoided it for 25 years - just that its never been anywhere near as powerful and obvious as it was the other night. I chatted to the guitartist last night and he mentioned that there was a great big solid wooden table behind my cab about 12-15 inches away from the rear port on the cab. The table had been turned on its side and was therefore acting like a wall i guess. [/quote] That may well have had a big influence. A table tob is probably pretty smooth too so would reflect quite efficiently. I dread getting the BOOM as when it's really bad its very disconcerting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 [quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1320683328' post='1429939'] That may well have had a big influence. A table tob is probably pretty smooth too so would reflect quite efficiently. I dread getting the BOOM as when it's really bad its very disconcerting. [/quote] Yeah it was horrible. I was all pleased with myself when i thought to play it an octave up and then right pissed of when it did the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Just play the bits in between the notes. Works for me every time. Haven't really came across this but have had the opposite where certain notes seem to disappear and have no sustain yet when playing same rig, same bass, same strings in another venue it was fine. Must admit i haven't had this issue since using my GB & Berg cabs. ? Cheers Dave Edited November 7, 2011 by dmccombe7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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