Is it because I'm a Bass player?

[arthurhenry]

At a heavy rock gig I played a load of Rush and Iron maiden licks at soundcheck - no one noticed.
At a classic rock covers gig I slipped the solo from Jethro Tull's Bouree into my solo - no one noticed.
At a covers gig someone kept shouting out for some Bee Gees. Later in the set I slipped in the riff from Stayin' alive - he didn't notice.
On the 20th anniversary of Jaco's death, I sneaked lots of Jaco licks into the set - no one noticed.
Shortly after George Harrison's death, I slipped the melody from Here comes the sun into a song - no one noticed.

Do things like this happen to you, and frustrate you?
Am I a musical snob for expecting audiences to notice this stuff?
Is it due to peoples lack of understanding about Bass?
Is the sad truth that however passionate you are about music, most of the people you ever play to will be casual music fans?

[fatback]

I honestly think most people can't hear the bass or at least couldn't pick it out if you asked them to. Takes a bit of ear training.

I have the opposite problem, it's all I hear well, joking, but it's what I hear first.

Edited February 17, 2010 by fatback

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='arthurhenry' post='748125' date='Feb 17 2010, 10:28 AM']At a heavy rock gig I played a load of Rush and Iron maiden licks at soundcheck - no one noticed.
At a classic rock covers gig I slipped the solo from Jethro Tull's Bouree into my solo - no one noticed.
At a covers gig someone kept shouting out for some Bee Gees. Later in the set I slipped in the riff from Stayin' alive - he didn't notice.
On the 20th anniversary of Jaco's death, I sneaked lots of Jaco licks into the set - no one noticed.
Shortly after George Harrison's death, I slipped the melody from Here comes the sun into a song - no one noticed.

Do things like this happen to you, and frustrate you?
Am I a musical snob for expecting audiences to notice this stuff?
Is it due to peoples lack of understanding about Bass?
Is the sad truth that however passionate you are about music, most of the people you ever play to will be casual music fans?[/quote]

- Yes, no not at all.
- Possibly... my missus would notice but she's a bit of a music geek as well
- Lack of familiarity maybe? (remember a lot of bass wasn't even audible on am tranny radios)
- It's a truth, but doesn't have to be sad. Those same people entirely fund my hobby/pasttime.

Jon

[crez5150]

Absolutely...... last year during a wedding gig.... I had a guy (drunk, very drunk) keep coming up to me saying... you play any Level 42 in your set.... and I'm saying no over and over again.... this goes on for about an hour.... so at the end of the night I slip in the riff to Lessons in Love over Honky tonk women (made the guys in the band chuckle)... the guy was standing right in front of me dancing when I do this..... he looks up then smiles then throws up everywhere.......

[Bassassin]

[quote name='crez5150' post='748141' date='Feb 17 2010, 10:35 AM']Absolutely...... last year during a wedding gig.... I had a guy (drunk, very drunk) keep coming up to me saying... you play any Level 42 in your set.... and I'm saying no over and over again.... this goes on for about an hour.... so at the end of the night I slip in the riff to Lessons in Love over Honky tonk women (made the guys in the band chuckle)... the guy was standing right in front of me dancing when I do this..... he looks up then smiles then throws up everywhere.......[/quote]
There you go - it was a warning, not a request.

Jon.

[crez5150]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='748159' date='Feb 17 2010, 10:45 AM']There you go - it was a warning, not a request.

Jon.[/quote]

[SteveK]

[quote name='arthurhenry' post='748125' date='Feb 17 2010, 10:28 AM']At a heavy rock gig I played a load of Rush and Iron maiden licks at soundcheck - no one noticed.
At a classic rock covers gig I slipped the solo from Jethro Tull's Bouree into my solo - no one noticed.
At a covers gig someone kept shouting out for some Bee Gees. Later in the set I slipped in the riff from Stayin' alive - he didn't notice.
On the 20th anniversary of Jaco's death, I sneaked lots of Jaco licks into the set - no one noticed.
Shortly after George Harrison's death, I slipped the melody from Here comes the sun into a song - no one noticed.

Do things like this happen to you, and frustrate you?
Am I a musical snob for expecting audiences to notice this stuff?
Is it due to peoples lack of understanding about Bass?
Is the sad truth that however passionate you are about music, most of the people you ever play to will be casual music fans?[/quote]

You keep saying "no one noticed"! How do you know? Providing you played these licks/riffs well and you were heard in the mix, then, I'm sure many will have noticed...what kind of reaction were you expecting?

[Jerry_B]

To be honest, even with me being a bass player I wouldn't have recognised any of the things you played - well, perhaps some of the Iron Maiden stuff, depending on the songs. People's taste is many and varied, which colours what they know or can reference to. And, like others have pointed out, the audience may have not have been able to hear it.

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='SteveK' post='748214' date='Feb 17 2010, 11:24 AM']You keep saying "no one noticed"! How do you know? Providing you played these licks/riffs well and you were heard in the mix, then, I'm sure many will have noticed...what kind of reaction were you expecting?[/quote]

It would have been nice for someone to come up and say they'd noticed, but perhaps this is an unrealistic expectation.

[neepheid]

[quote name='arthurhenry' post='748223' date='Feb 17 2010, 11:32 AM']It would have been nice for someone to come up and say they'd noticed, but perhaps this is an unrealistic expectation.[/quote]

I think you're expecting too much, just be happy in your own knowledge that you played well or had a good gig.

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='Jerry_B' post='748222' date='Feb 17 2010, 11:31 AM']To be honest, even with me being a bass player I wouldn't have recognised any of the things you played - well, perhaps some of the Iron Maiden stuff, depending on the songs. People's taste is many and varied, which colours what they know or can reference to. And, like others have pointed out, the audience may have not have been able to hear it.[/quote]

That's true, I guess when you're passionate about a particular piece of music you like to think someone else out there ( even in a pub crowd) will be the same and come and say so. But usually not!

[chris_b]

I've got 3 priorities; first to impress and lock with the drummer, then as a rhythm section we have to impress the band, then as a band we have to impress the promoter and audience. The audience doesn't need to know what I've played, but as long as the audience thinks the band's great and the band thinks I'm great then it's a job well done!

[jamesbass116]

I once had a very drunk man come up to me halfway through a bass breakdown in my soul bands version of car wash, going "PLAY CAN'T TOUCH THIS" I did it and the whole audience cheered. But then again that was just drums and bass in the breakdown so it was more obvious.

As long as I'm having fun I don't really mind if noone notices I'm playing the original basslines to the majority of the songs the soul band does.

[Earbrass]

[quote name='chris_b' post='748255' date='Feb 17 2010, 11:48 AM']I've got 3 priorities; first to impress and lock with the drummer, then as a rhythm section we have to impress the band, then as a band we have to impress the promoter and audience. The audience doesn't need to know what I've played, but as long as the audience thinks the band's great and the band thinks I'm great then it's a job well done![/quote]

This. After my other half came to our first gig, she said "I couldn't hear you". What she meant, it transpired, was that she could not separate out in her mind that portion of the noise for which my bass was responsible. I think an awful lot of people are like that.

[farmer61]

Join a 3 piece band, you'll get noticed all right - mistakes and all!

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='farmer61' post='748271' date='Feb 17 2010, 12:03 PM']Join a 3 piece band, you'll get noticed all right - mistakes and all![/quote]

All the instances I mentioned were with 3 piece bands! Audiences usually don't notice the mistakes - bandmates do!

[Spoombung]

Well, Johnny Rotten called the bass 'the only instrument in the band that no one listens too'.

[NJE]

I came to the following conclusions a long time ago with regards to playing live with a band:

1. A suprising amount of people dont even know what a bass is or what its purpose is in a band "is it liek a big guitar"
2. Most people wont be able to hear or pull out what you are playing from a band mix
3. Even if they can hear you most people dont really care what you are playing
4. Most of the time the audience watch the singer and guitarist because they can idetify with it easier than bass.
5. Nobody really cares what bass or amp you have, not even musicians a lot of the time.
6. Even if someone knows about bass their knowledge only usually extends to John Entwistle, Mark King and Flea "Jaco who?"
7. In most cases when you start slapping the sound engineer turns the PA off or down and then asks you play "properly"

I say "most of the time" a lot because there are odd occasions when someone will comment on your playing/gear. This is in my experience is either a really young person starting out asking about your gear and commenting on how good you were. In these cases its always nice to chat and be humble and honest because basically I am not very good. The other occasion is usually cocky musicians saying your tone was rubbish and "why dont you get a proper bass, I have a Fender".

In short I agree with the other chaps, be tight try and impress your band and hold your own musically with your them. Get the best sound you can with the best gear you can and try and put on a good show and play the songs well. You may not be noticed individually but the music wouldn't be as good without your low end.

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='NJE' post='748284' date='Feb 17 2010, 12:11 PM']I came to the following conclusions a long time ago with regards to playing live with a band:

1. A suprising amount of people dont even know what a bass is or what its purpose is in a band "is it liek a big guitar"
2. Most people wont be able to hear or pull out what you are playing from a band mix
3. Even if they can hear you most people dont really care what you are playing
4. Most of the time the audience watch the singer and guitarist because they can idetify with it easier than bass.
5. Nobody really cares what bass or amp you have, not even musicians a lot of the time.
6. Even if someone knows about bass their knowledge only usually extends to John Entwistle, Mark King and Flea "Jaco who?"
7. In most cases when you start slapping the sound engineer turns the PA off or down and then asks you play "properly"

I say "most of the time" a lot because there are odd occasions when someone will comment on your playing/gear. This is in my experience is either a really young person starting out asking about your gear and commenting on how good you were. In these cases its always nice to chat and be humble and honest because basically I am not very good. The other occasion is usually cocky musicians saying your tone was rubbish and "why dont you get a proper bass, I have a Fender".

In short I agree with the other chaps, be tight try and impress your band and hold your own musically with your them. Get the best sound you can with the best gear you can and try and put on a good show and play the songs well. You may not be noticed individually but the music wouldn't be as good without your low end.[/quote]

Fantastic. I totally agree with your observations except no.7 As a non slapper, I've had people come up and tell me I should do it and even one guy who said it was the "proper" way to play bass! I've observed that a slap fest is one of the few things that audiences do notice about bass.

[bumfrog]

[quote name='arthurhenry' post='748125' date='Feb 17 2010, 10:28 AM']Do things like this happen to you, and frustrate you?
Am I a musical snob for expecting audiences to notice this stuff?
Is it due to peoples lack of understanding about Bass?
Is the sad truth that however passionate you are about music, most of the people you ever play to will be casual music fans?[/quote]

Doesn't frustrate me in the slightest because I play music because I love it. I don't play it so that I can have people come up to me after a gig and treat me like a god or something.

IMHO you're expecting waaaaaaaay to much. Especially at roots kind of level, possibly even more so if you're playing covers.

If you want to jerk off and have people sit there in awe, become a jazz muso, a guitarist or something, but don't expect it as the norm.

[51m0n]

Some awful truths (massive generalisations) you need to get your head around:-

#1 Punters often cant make head nor tale of bass - they can tell if its wrong, sometimes....

#2 Punters main concern is having a good time, not checking out the various and clever references the bassist is making

#3 Puinters couldnt tell good bass gear from bad, or good bass tone from bad, if the groove is there they are happy, although they generally wont know why, why on earth would you expect anything different?

#4 Punters do not see bass as something to concentrate on in a mix, they aren't trained too (why would they be, and yes it requires some training)

#5 Punters concentrate on melody, lyrics, guitarists, keys, horns, drummers, before bass - get over it!

#6 Consequently most punters think a band is bad for any other reason than the bassist being utter plop, even if the truth is that the band is plop because the bassist is rubbish.

#7 Punters think bass is easier to play than guitar, keys, drums, and far easier than singing. In some genres they are not far off the truth, however much we like to think that isnt the case, if only because the parts are simpler.

#8 The vast majority of venues/sound engineers are massively compromising your bass sound FOH, so no one can hear anything other than a whumwhum,whum even when you are above the 12th fret on your G string. The kick drum will be like a sledgehammer between the eyes in comparison. Thems the breaks kiddo, tough!

This is a massive generalisation, but still very true, there are some genres where this is less the case (dub, funk) but even then it still holds true for a large proportion of paying civilians out to have a good night.

Enjoy that you played well, held the band together, were tight, enjoyed the music and made people happy, do not fret if no one mentions any thing about what you played precisely, since they wouldnt have picked it out anyway.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='51m0n' post='748310' date='Feb 17 2010, 12:29 PM']Enjoy that you played well, held the band together, were tight, enjoyed the music and made people happy.[/quote]

That's the key issue. And TBH, most musos tend to miss extemporized musical quotes.

I was jamming with some guys one night and worked some Zep, Sabbath, Purple, Who and Small Faces into a 12- bar blues. No one noticed, or, if they [i]did[/i] notice, cared not a sh*t. Pah!

Mind you, I was so busy listening to myself I wouldn't have noticed the guitarist incorporating the entire overture from The Marriage Of Figaro.

Edited February 17, 2010 by skankdelvar

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='51m0n' post='748310' date='Feb 17 2010, 12:29 PM']Some awful truths (massive generalisations) you need to get your head around:-

#1 Punters often cant make head nor tale of bass - they can tell if its wrong, sometimes....

#2 Punters main concern is having a good time, not checking out the various and clever references the bassist is making

#3 Puinters couldnt tell good bass gear from bad, or good bass tone from bad, if the groove is there they are happy, although they generally wont know why, why on earth would you expect anything different?

#4 Punters do not see bass as something to concentrate on in a mix, they aren't trained too (why would they be, and yes it requires some training)

#5 Punters concentrate on melody, lyrics, guitarists, keys, horns, drummers, before bass - get over it!

#6 Consequently most punters think a band is bad for any other reason than the bassist being utter plop, even if the truth is that the band is plop because the bassist is rubbish.

#7 Punters think bass is easier to play than guitar, keys, drums, and far easier than singing. In some genres they are not far off the truth, however much we like to think that isnt the case, if only because the parts are simpler.

#8 The vast majority of venues/sound engineers are massively compromising your bass sound FOH, so no one can hear anything other than a whumwhum,whum even when you are above the 12th fret on your G string. The kick drum will be like a sledgehammer between the eyes in comparison. Thems the breaks kiddo, tough!

This is a massive generalisation, but still very true, there are some genres where this is less the case (dub, funk) but even then it still holds true for a large proportion of paying civilians out to have a good night.

Enjoy that you played well, held the band together, were tight, enjoyed the music and made people happy, do not fret if no one mentions any thing about what you played precisely, since they wouldnt have picked it out anyway.[/quote]

I agree with all the above. By the way I've been playing for 23 years - semi pro for 18 of them, I just wondered if others felt the same as me. I have got over most of this stuff, it just niggles sometimes.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='748159' date='Feb 17 2010, 10:45 AM']There you go - it was a warning, not a request.

Jon.[/quote]
Pure genius, Jon!!

[Mr. Quiet]

[quote name='chris_b' post='748255' date='Feb 17 2010, 11:48 AM']I've got 3 priorities; first to impress and lock with the drummer, then as a rhythm section we have to impress the band, then as a band we have to impress the promoter and audience. The audience doesn't need to know what I've played, but as long as the audience thinks the band's great and the band thinks I'm great then it's a job well done![/quote]

I'm with Chris on this
(Although it is nice when someone compliments you on the bass sound, makes the outlay worthwhile!)