Would someone's extreme political views prevent you being in a band with them, or working with them?

[Bassassin]

1 minute ago, fretmeister said:

 

 

I hope I never get so bored / tired that I wouldn't try to stick up for those being demonised for no good reason.

 

“Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. The grave will supply plenty of time for silence.”

― Christopher Hitchens

 

 

Quite. I tend not to read or contribute to threads I find uninteresting, or downright boring.

[Misdee]

1 hour ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

Which is why it’s important that racism is defined officially and legislatively and not left to individuals to arbitrate for themselves. 

Who could "officially" define what racism is? With what authority? That definition will always be a matter for conjecture. 

 

May I also point out, the Oxford English Dictionary is a reference for the English language, not a definitive handbook for reality.

[Steve Browning]

10 minutes ago, prowla said:

...and your terms "average" and "reasonable" are weighted by your own definitions.

So, my point is that far from being definitive, the term in question is very subjective and is not defined in law.

An example of the subjectiveness is this university's definition (https://www.lboro.ac.uk/internal/online-reporting/looking-for-information/racism/), which states that racism can only be performed by a "dominant" group against a "minoritized" (sic) group - that's not what the Equality Act says (I think!).

 

The Law trumps any other version. The uni version is irrelevant in Law. They could lead to the same conclusion but only if the Law supports it (and I would suggest it doesn't). I guess a future empoyment tribunal would have to figure that one out.

 

It's similar to when people would argue that such and such is right because the contact says so. In the same way, Law overrides any contracual stipulation. A contract can say 2 and 2 is 5, but it isn't.

 

You're labouring a point I don't disagree with and have explained why that is and how subsequent case law fine tunes how the laws are interpreted.

[prowla]

6 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

 

The Law trumps any other version. The uni version is irrelevant in Law. They could lead to the same conclusion but only if the Law supports it (and I would suggest it doesn't). I guess a future empoyment tribunal would have to figure that one out.

 

It's similar to when people would argue that such and such is right because the contact says so. In the same way, Law overrides any contracual stipulation. A contract can say 2 and 2 is 5, but it isn't.

 

You're labouring a point I don't disagree with and have explained why that is and how subsequent case law fine tunes how the laws are interpreted.

OK - thanks; I took your mansplaining as disagreement! 🙂

[Al Krow]

32 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Some red herrings there. White grooming gangs outnumber non-white ones massively. I've yet to see a protest about them.

"large numbers of migrants" is similarly loaded. There's about 30K in "asylum" hotels.

 

I'm sure we're all agreed that all grooming gangs are evil! My point was that the fear of being labelled "racist" was a reason cited for police not looking into the Bradford gangs.

 

In terms of small boat numbers perhaps closer to half a million coming to the UK since the crossings started, once you include dependents who subsequently come over to join them? Does people objecting to the impact on their communities of these significant number of arrivals make them racist? If so, we're going to be labelling a huge chunk of the UK population racist, which I just don't think is true? 

 

And if it is true, we're going to have a lot fewer "non racist" bandmates to choose from! 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Al Krow

[prowla]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

I'm sure we're all agreed that all grooming gangs are evil! My point was that the fear of being labelled "racist" was a reason cited for police not looking into the Bradford gangs.

 

In terms of small boat numbers perhaps closer to half a million coming to the UK since the crossings started, once you include dependents who subsequently come over to join them? Does people objecting to the impact on their communities of these significant number of arrivals make them racist? If so, we're going to be labelling a huge chunk of the UK population racist, which I just don't think is true? 

 

And if it is true, we ain't going to have too many "non racist" bandmates to choose from! 

 

Well, at least 52% of the UK population are! 🙂

[tegs07]

Sometimes you just need to live and let live. A middle class mates wife got in a bun fight with her cleaner due to her views about trans and gender identity.

 

Really? Why bring this up with your cleaner? Maybe chat about the weekend and the grandkids?

 

Also do you really expect someone in their 60s on their knees on your vast kitchen floor to really give a toss about what keeps you up at night?

[Lozz196]

1 minute ago, prowla said:

Well, at least 52% of the UK population are! 🙂

In that case I must be

[fretmeister]

34 minutes ago, Misdee said:

Who could "officially" define what racism is? With what authority? That definition will always be a matter for conjecture. 

 

May I also point out, the Oxford English Dictionary is a reference for the English language, not a definitive handbook for reality.

 

Who: Parliament and the Courts.

 

Authority: the constitution. 

[Oopsdabassist]

13 hours ago, TimR said:

 

You can switch your feed to Friends. 

 

It still has adverts, but not all the other nonsense. 

Ooooh tell me how!! Face ache is driving me to despair nowadays.  If it wasn't for family in Oz I would dump it completely!

[TimR]

4 minutes ago, Oopsdabassist said:

Ooooh tell me how!! Face ache is driving me to despair nowadays.  If it wasn't for family in Oz I would dump it completely!

https://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2024/05/solution-how-to-make-facebook-only-show.html?m=1

 

[fretmeister]

4 minutes ago, Oopsdabassist said:

Ooooh tell me how!! Face ache is driving me to despair nowadays.  If it wasn't for family in Oz I would dump it completely!

 

On the website the left column has options of ALL / Favourites / Friends and so on.

Just click Friends.

 

For some reason that doesn't work on the iOS app though. I'm still looking on there. If someone works that out please let me know too!

[Leonard Smalls]

6 minutes ago, Oopsdabassist said:

Face ache is driving me to despair nowadays

If you're on a phone then the friends feed is the only way...

However, if you're on a pc and using a browser, add the Facebook Purity extension. It gets rid of large chunks of stuff you don't want!

[Misdee]

16 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

 

Who: Parliament and the Courts.

 

Authority: the constitution. 

At the risk of stating the obvious, Parliament's definition is political, the Courts definition is legal and guided by Parliament. That makes them partisan, not definitive. 

 

Just because they have power and are in control, it doesn't necessarily make them right.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Misdee

[Leonard Smalls]

25 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Sometimes you just need to live and let live. A middle class mates wife got in a bun fight with her cleaner due to her views about trans and gender identity.

I remember many years ago a mate of mine had a posh but very right-on girlfriend. He was a proper midlander, but kind of skinny and not at all hard...

And I lost count of the amount of times he'd get punched because she'd taken exception to some cokernee geeza effin and c-in at the bar...

It normally went:

Geez to his mate: Cor what a F-in C he is!

She, next to Geez at bar: You do realise that that's a term that's  highly offensive to women and I want you to stop using it!

Geez: Or f-in what, you C?

Partner to She: C'mon Vix me duck, let's go!

Geez punches partner in face.

[Oopsdabassist]

12 minutes ago, TimR said:

https://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2024/05/solution-how-to-make-facebook-only-show.html?m=1

 

Cheers m'dear 👍

[Steve Browning]

M'dear? You sexist b*stard. 🙂

[fretmeister]

19 minutes ago, Misdee said:

At the risk of stating the obvious, Parliament's definition is political, the Courts definition is legal and guided by Parliament. That makes them partisan, not definitive. 

 

Just because they have power and are in control, it doesn't necessarily make them right.

 

 

Perhaps not. But it does make it consistent and consistency is required for the old "ignorance of the law is no defence" to carry any weight. 

 

And ultimately no other body / person / dictionary editor gets to make a definition that carries consequence and enforceability.

So in a practical manner rather than academic, no other definition is important.

[Wombat]

My forebears came here in small boats! They came with swords and for ‘a bit of r&r with the local wenches’ on their mind. Hasn’t made me think I own the place though!

[Lozz196]

7 minutes ago, Wombat said:

My forebears came here in small boats! They came with swords and for ‘a bit of r&r with the local wenches’ on their mind. Hasn’t made me think I own the place though!

Just where was Rylan when he was needed……

[fretmeister]

9 minutes ago, Wombat said:

My forebears came here in small boats! They came with swords and for ‘a bit of r&r with the local wenches’ on their mind. Hasn’t made me think I own the place though!

 

If you are entitled to vote then you do own the place.

[EssexBuccaneer]

I think we can surmise this thread by all agreeing that if someone has painted a roundabout, bought a flag from Amazon and hung it from a lamppost, or responded to positivity about the England women’s football team by suggesting it’s of a low standard, you’re going to struggle to find bandmates. 

[cetera]

A general thanks to the majority of contributors to this thread for engaging thoughtfully and honestly in the spirit I originally posted it. It's made for an interesting read and I am reassured at the moral compasses of most of you.

Not sure what more can be said, so Mods - I think we can probably close this now as we're getting off topic, arguing interpretation of law etc. 

Edited 53 minutes ago by cetera

[Dad3353]

Ooo look..! A bee..!

[fretmeister]

8 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Ooo look..! A bee..!

 

 

Apis mellifera

Strangely called the "Western" honey bee despite it most likely coming from North Africa / Asia.

 

Sodding bees. Coming over here...