Cookies

[Silvia Bluejay]

I get this message when I log on:

 

Quote

We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners.

 

Well, I don't want that to happen. I don't want this website to share any information about my use of this site with your partners. But I'm only offered a button called "Got it!", so I can't deny permission. I'm not sure this is legal in the UK?

[DGBass]

Looks like a new feature and I recall there was some discussion about cookie banners fairly recently. I did get some friendly feedback from the powers that be to explain why certain cookies were needed but I must admit i wasn't fully convinced all the cookies could be classed as totally necessary. Anyway, my cookie flavours appear to be in italian for some reason🤔

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by DGBass

[Silvia Bluejay]

Yes I got the Italian version too, @DGBass! I thought it was because I visit a lot of Italian sites and type a lot of emails in Italian, and that my computer perhaps already had cookies indicating the presence of that language somewhere in the system. Interesting to know that's not the case, and instead the message is simply random.

Curioser and curioser.

[ahpook]

I got the biscotti too

[Silvia Bluejay]

8 minutes ago, DGBass said:

Looks like a new feature and I recall there was some discussion about cookie banners fairly recently. I did get some friendly feedback from the powers that be to explain why certain cookies were needed but I must admit i wasn't fully convinced all the cookies could be classed as totallt necessary.

 

 

I think the bit about sharing info with their partners is a third-party cookie matter, which the user should definitely be allowed to reject from this page, not just from their browser's settings. (That would apply globally to the user's browsing experience, not just basschat.co.uk.)

[ahpook]

I'm with  @Silvia Bluejay 

[barkin]

9 minutes ago, ahpook said:

I'm with  @Silvia Bluejay 

Yup. 

 

Italian here too

[SpondonBassed]

Right on Sylvia.

 

What does "Got it" mean anyway?  It's not exactly explicit consent.  Why can't we have the option to reject all but essential cookies like a lot of other sites do?

[tauzero]

I get the message in English, but very briefly, then it disappears. It took me a while before I could work out what it said (I blame midweek alcohol).

[tauzero]

41 minutes ago, tauzero said:

I get the message in English, but very briefly, then it disappears. It took me a while before I could work out what it said (I blame midweek alcohol).

 

I may be wrong, the pop-up might be being translated immediately.

[rwillett]

It appears that you no longer have the right to opt out of cookies under UK law. This changed last year 2022 as part of the Government drive to liberalise the internet. This liberalisation appears to only benefit people who collect data on you. It doesn’t help you. The exception to this is when websites collect information from children. I cannot recall what information is requested on signing up. However since the ICO does absolutely nothing to enforce cookie compliance under UK law, the law is mostly disregarded. 
 

It appears that in the UK the inability to opt out is legal. 
 

However in the EU, users must explicitly opt in to cookies. The exact opposite of the UK. This means the cookie is illegal for EU users as it gives no ability to use this site without denying non essential cookies. The EU and local states do take personal information and cookies seriously so any complaint might be looked at. 

 

I might try and look at the site from a European based VPN and see what it looks like. 
 

I’ll also look at what extensions are available to clear and kill cookies. Poisoning the well is the other option. 
 

think of it as yet another Brexit dividend. 
 

Rob

[rwillett]

These are the trackers that Safari on an iPhone is blocking for basschat.

 

c

[Gasman]

It's very annoying to see this cookie warning flashed up on every screen navigation move with no option but 'Got It!' I do not want my browsing behaviour sold on to advertisers. Many sites are now giving the option to reject all cookies, or at least to reject all non-essential cookies, so why has Basschat management gone for the opposite? Meh!

[ped]

Mines in Italian too! I’m not involved in this work so I can’t help with it I’m afraid. Personally I think third party ads are a waste of time. 

[rwillett]

My warnings in English   I’m also not getting it each time I use Basschat. Given I support  Basschat as a subscriber I don’t like that. I would have hoped my payment would have avoided this sort of tracking for us all.
 

Dead easy for next year, I won’t support the site financially. 
 

Actions have consequences. 
 

Rob

[Fionn]

As well as the imposition of unwelcome cookies … Since this started, my navigation of the site is now impeded by pop up adverts, sometimes stacking on top of one another.

 

This doesn’t bode well.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Fionn

[rwillett]

30 minutes ago, Fionn said:

As well as the imposition of unwelcome cookies … Since this started, my navigation of the site is now impeded by pop up adverts, sometimes stacking on top of one another.

 

This doesn’t bode well.

 

 

 

I don't get any popup ads on either Firefox on Mac or Safari on iPhone. I have all sorts of extensions to block stuff though as I detest all the trackers and cookies. Stringly suggest adding in various things like Privacy Badger, Ghostery, AdBlock and going through your privacy settings to kill any leaks of information you can. I stopped using Chrome a few years ago, Firefox works very well except for development and a few websites. Safari is pretty good but not as good yet. Apple does appear to block a lot of stuff in Safari anyway.

 

YMMV

Rob

[Si600]

 

3 hours ago, rwillett said:

I might try and look at the site from a European based VPN and see what it looks like. 

 

I'm coming in from the EU, with a German SIM card and I'm also only getting Got it! as an option. I'm also getting it every single time I browse to BC.

[Kiwi]

 

As mentioned in the site update notice above, I am trialling a partnership with new third party advertiser called Ezoic.  This is because BC needs the income and the last couple of years have been pretty bad for the digital marketing industry overall.  I've really struggled to get sponsors on board by myself who are interested in display ads.  Most of the larger names in the music industry I've spoken to, like Andertons and Reverb, expect us to join affiilate schemes which operate in a way (as a sales channel) that is different to how BC functions best (as a marketing platform).  It's like Nike going to Youtube and offering them a commission based on the sales Youtube generates for them.  The rate of return on affiliate advertising for us is pretty poor because that's not what we do.  So this is a back stop while I wait for things to pick up within the industry or a better way of doing things emerges.

Woody the other admin and I have also spent the last four months working through technical issues with Ezoic around cookie management on GC and today was supposed to be the start of a four week trial on BC. Apart from this hiccup, Ezoic have been pretty good to work with, very proactive and sensitive to my concerns about causing disruption and alarm. So to have something unexpected happen like this pop up is pretty disappointing given things were running so smoothly on GC.  

 

Now the important bit:
The main objective of the advertising trial is to test if we can get more income in by increasing the advertising only to lurkers. That is, people viewing the site who are not signed in.  We've gone to quite some lengths, including commissioning a new plug in from Invision, to avoid any increase in exposure to ads for members.  We are also removing all exposure to ads for those members who are kind enough to support the site.

The only way Ezoic can differentiate between members and supporting members is through cookies.  So the plug in we commissioned puts a cookie in your browser cache that tells Ezoic what grade of membership you have.  That should tell Ezoic whether to show ads in a browser window or not.  Adblock should still work but it shouldn't be necessary if you are signed in.  If you are blocking cookies, I can't predict what you will see - I hope the feedback you provide will help us minimise alarm and concerns. 

If you have any questions about what Ezoic does, feel free to ask them below and I'll either pass them on and report back, or if they're technically complex, I'll invite Ezoic to come on here and answer them directly. 

Finally: 
Just a reminder that this is a trial.  That means initial testing for four weeks from today. 

From the first moment I started having discussions with them, I emphasised very strongly the need to establish a good fit with the community and to not cause alarm or concerns.  If Ezoic is indeed a good fit and can provide the income needed to support the site then we'd like to keep them on board.  If they cause more problems than they solve then...well, the search for an alternative source of income might have to continue.  

[Happy Jack]

The finances of any given website or forum will generally be so opaque as to be quite impenetrable to the Users, and Basschat is no different to that.

 

All of which said, it's hard to understand how such a thriving and successful Forum, with so many subscribing Members and a busy (and paid for) Marketplace can be running short of money.

[Silvia Bluejay]

Thanks Steve @Kiwi. My Firefox cookie handling is set on STRICT so it will reject most of whatever Ezoic is trying to ask my browser anyway. However, I must say I'm still uncomfortable and I have activated Adblock Plus on this site for good measure. I prefer to actually see any ads that appear on this site, for several reasons, but for the moment I'll go with this over-defensive setup.

Hope things improve soon for the site on all levels.

[BreadBin]

I'm browsing on my Android phone, Google browser with no adblockers. I've clicked 'got it' and now get no extra ads, just the little banner ad at the top (currently Rotosound new picks).

For my configuration at least it appears to be working exactly as intended 👍

[SpondonBassed]

With every sympathy for what you've said @Kiwi,  I am a supporting member and would like to continue to do so as the site is quite important to me.  However, I shall make this the last year in which I contribute if this goes on beyond the trial.

 

Sorry, but as a paying member, I do not want to see any third party stuff.  I have been tolerant because @ped mentioned that BC was looking to make this possible for paying subscribers.  I run a script blocker which prevents Ezoic (and others) from running scripts on my machine.  The fact that this is happening despite blocking their script has upset me somewhat.

 

I don't believe that a cookie is the ONLY way to identify paying and non-paying subscribers after sign-in.

[rwillett]

1 hour ago, Kiwi said:

 

As mentioned in the site update notice above, I am trialling a partnership with new third party advertiser called Ezoic.  This is because BC needs the income and the last couple of years have been pretty bad for the digital marketing industry overall.  I've really struggled to get sponsors on board by myself who are interested in display ads.  Most of the larger names in the music industry I've spoken to, like Andertons and Reverb, expect us to join affiilate schemes which operate in a way (as a sales channel) that is different to how BC functions best (as a marketing platform).  It's like Nike going to Youtube and offering them a commission based on the sales Youtube generates for them.  The rate of return on affiliate advertising for us is pretty poor because that's not what we do.  So this is a back stop while I wait for things to pick up within the industry or a better way of doing things emerges.

Woody the other admin and I have also spent the last four months working through technical issues with Ezoic around cookie management on GC and today was supposed to be the start of a four week trial on BC. Apart from this hiccup, Ezoic have been pretty good to work with, very proactive and sensitive to my concerns about causing disruption and alarm. So to have something unexpected happen like this pop up is pretty disappointing given things were running so smoothly on GC.  

 

Now the important bit:
The main objective of the advertising trial is to test if we can get more income in by increasing the advertising only to lurkers. That is, people viewing the site who are not signed in.  We've gone to quite some lengths, including commissioning a new plug in from Invision, to avoid any increase in exposure to ads for members.  We are also removing all exposure to ads for those members who are kind enough to support the site.

The only way Ezoic can differentiate between members and supporting members is through cookies.  So the plug in we commissioned puts a cookie in your browser cache that tells Ezoic what grade of membership you have.  That should tell Ezoic whether to show ads in a browser window or not.  Adblock should still work but it shouldn't be necessary if you are signed in.  If you are blocking cookies, I can't predict what you will see - I hope the feedback you provide will help us minimise alarm and concerns. 

If you have any questions about what Ezoic does, feel free to ask them below and I'll either pass them on and report back, or if they're technically complex, I'll invite Ezoic to come on here and answer them directly. 

Finally: 
Just a reminder that this is a trial.  That means initial testing for four weeks from today. 

From the first moment I started having discussions with them, I emphasised very strongly the need to establish a good fit with the community and to not cause alarm or concerns.  If Ezoic is indeed a good fit and can provide the income needed to support the site then we'd like to keep them on board.  If they cause more problems than they solve then...well, the search for an alternative source of income might have to continue.  

 

First of all thank you for the comprehensive update. Thats very helpful. I think what you are doing is the right approach as well.

 

I wasn't aware of this test, not sure I should be at all to be honest, but it appears other people have been scared by it.

 

I like the idea of advertising for lurkers, I also like the idea of paying supporters not having some of the ads. I recognise the challenges that you face financially, its a tough environment. Thats why I became a paid supporter.

 

It would be good to know which cookiers are needed and which are not. Most people (including myself) have no issues with necessary cookies, but I am wary of the trackers that accompany Google and Facebook. Facebook has too much information about people already.

 

My personal view is that the more comms the better. However other people might have other views. I am more reassured now and will follow this with interest,

 

Rob

[Reggaebass]

12 hours ago, DGBass said:

Looks like a new feature and I recall there was some discussion about cookie banners fairly recently. I did get some friendly feedback from the powers that be to explain why certain cookies were needed but I must admit i wasn't fully convinced all the cookies could be classed as totally necessary. Anyway, my cookie flavours appear to be in italian for some reason🤔

 

Mine are in French 

[rwillett]

I wonder if this is based on your IP address? Thats the normal way to *try* and work where people are. This fails miserably for stuff like AOL who are all out of Virginia.

 

If you go to this website https://nordvpn.com/what-is-my-ip/ it displays where it thinks you are. This is where it thinks I am. Its out by around 30 miles but at least it's in the right country.

 

 

Since your IP address is sent out with every http request, its not sensitive information and will be in the logs anyway.

 

Might be worth checking, There are lots of websites that do this sort of stuff.

Rob