Something bad happened

[binky_bass]

24 minutes ago, PriZeMaN said:

Ok fair doos I missed out a t and an apostrophe in my haste but I think we both need to work on our grammar. It's 'there' NOT their 😜

Thanks for falling into my trap! 😂 

 

Going back to the bass...

 

Do you think you'll consider re-cutting the headstock to a less divisive shape? Also, someone mentioned employing a bit of elbow grease and sanding the whole thing back and giving it a nice natural oil rubbed finish - both wouldn't cost you much more money and both would increase the chances of a sale exponentially.

 

Make your work shine sir, at the moment you've done some interesting and good work which is being marred a bit by the look of the product your offering - a few costless minor tweaks and you'll really be on to something cool! 

 

You're minutes down the road from me (I'm in Wickford), if you normalised the headstock and gave it a natural rub finish I'd be interested to see it in the flesh.

Edited December 20, 2022 by binky_bass

[PriZeMaN]

13 hours ago, yorks5stringer said:

OK, I'll bite  even though I realise I'm just adding 02 to the flames....

 

Must be my eyes too then, are you really telling me the routing  for the tuner cut-out in photo 3 has not 'wandered' a bit? Looks like it may have tipped and nibbled some of the edge?

It may look like the edge is not flat but poly paint is thick on the bongo and the lacquer is really thick (they really did a good job) so if I didn't want the paint to fracture and chip I would have had to score it real deep and being on a curve of the body I wasn't willing to sacrifice any wood damage from over scoring knowing that inevitably the whole bass would need to be striped and repainted. It does look wibbly wobbly but I can assure you that it's literally the illusion of the random chipping on the paint. Rather than just leave the sharp fractured paint edges from the machining, I lightly sanded them but I can assure you that the wood is straight.

 

Lemmywinks' statement of: The execution is poor though - bare wood, odd shaping choices and wonky lines all over the place. Is unjustified and NEGATIVE!

The execution is not poor.

The bare wood is clearly justified in my description knowing that the poly paint has to be COMPLETELY stripped for the new owner. The bass is kept indoors in a case not in my shed and in need of priming! By priming it, I am just creating more work for the painter to re-strip AND by painting it the potential buyer cannot CLEARLY see the modifications that I have made. It's impossible to match metallic poly paint so that's out of the window too.

My line choices are subjective and in my opininion carefully thought out, ODD means not the norm, suggesting that Lemmywinks thinks his choices would be more appealing to the masses.

The head cut matches the body horns and the rear cut matches the flow of the hardware and you can't start making extreme angles in this area because there is the straplock placement to consider. The strap now sits in the lowest possible postion because of minimum cutaway and it is nicely balanced.

 

Sorry for the lengthy explanation but there are a few fellow bassists throwing out incorrect statements on this thread instead of just opinions.

 

I LOVE everyone on this thread regardless of their opinions, we are all fellow bassists playing through the game of life!

[PriZeMaN]

14 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

Thanks for falling into my trap! 😂 

 

Going back to the bass...

 

Do you think you'll consider re-cutting the headstock to a less divisive shape? Also, someone mentioned employing a bit of elbow grease and sanding the whole thing back and giving it a nice natural oil rubbed finish - both wouldn't cost you much more money and both would increase the chances of a sale exponentially.

 

Make your work shine sir, at the moment you've done some interesting and good work which is being marred a bit by the look of the product your offering - a few costless minor tweaks and you'll really be on to something cool! 

 

You're minutes down the road from me (I'm in Wickford), if you normalised the headstock and gave it a natural rub finish I'd be interested to see it in the flesh.

Ha haha I fell in 😜

The head angle matches the horns but if the new owner wanted it removed I would be able to do this no problem.

It's poly paint so the whole bass would need to be stripped which is usually done by heatgun. This should be carried out professionally by the painter and not attempted by myself or anyone that doesn't know 100% what they are doing.

I apprecciated that you would be interested in seeing your preferred changes but unless you actually part with the cash, I'm afraid that's not gonna happen

All the best dude, remember to play your bass on Christmas day...LOUD! hahah

[PriZeMaN]

On 18/12/2022 at 22:55, binky_bass said:

That's not quite correct. I have one of these bridges, the reason why the ADGC screws are further out is because the saddle the ball end sits in is a little too far forward prior to tuning this means you have to wind the tuner more which then exposes the end of the screw. If you wind the saddle in before setting the ball end of the string in it, it moves the saddle to a better position therefore you need to rotate the tuner less thus not exposing the screw. Makes no odds to the functionality, but that'll be why the B and the E are more recessed. 

OooooH the tuning knob screws not the headplate set screws, I misunderstood. Yes they have all been evened up now as I hadn't finished with the intontation before I took the photos.

[binky_bass]

Just now, PriZeMaN said:

Ha haha I fell in 😜

The head angle matches the horns but if the new owner wanted it removed I would be able to do this no problem.

It's poly paint so the whole bass would need to be stripped which is usually done by heatgun. This should be carried out professionally by the painter and not attempted by myself or anyone that doesn't know 100% what they are doing.

I apprecciated that you would be interested in seeing your preferred changes but unless you actually part with the cash, I'm afraid that's not gonna happen

All the best dude, remember to play your bass on Christmas day...LOUD! hahah

Just some thoughts to make it more appealing to those potentially interested. I think most on here have a similar opinion. I understand you don't want to undertake any more work until a buyer is lined up, but not making a few adjustments to make sure it appeals to the masses is hugely limiting the already exceptionally small number of people that'd be interested in such a beast.

 

I know you know this already, but my comments are of course my own opinion and I'm not knocking your work at all. In my minds eye I can see it finished the way I'd want and except the paint part, you have the skills to carry out a huge modification like this and I definitely don't!

 

Customer bass wise, let's say there's 500,000 bassists in the UK, of that maybe 5% play 6 string bass, so that's maybe 25,000, of that maybe 10% would buy a Bongo, so that's 2500, of that maybe 10% would buy a headless Bongo, so 250. Of that maybe 10% would buy an unfinished headless Bongo, so 25. Of those, maybe 20% have the means to spend £2000 spare to spend. So 5. Its of course complete 'finger in air' math/logic, but I doubt I'm far off the mark! 

 

In any event, its all good fun and you've done something I'd not dare to do for so many reasons (lack of skill covers 90% of those reasons!) So kudos for doing it, I'd be interested to see more of your slightly crazy ideas! 🤪 

[NancyJohnson]

On 18/12/2022 at 17:44, PriZeMaN said:

Ohhh a lot of haters using negative words, hahahah. Guess some people like marmite, some don't.

As for the price, these are £2.5 new and the ETS hardware cost over £300 as well as hours of hard work..but it's not for you guys and girls.

 

 

Thing is, hardware and labour account for nothing really.  People want originality at the hands of the maker, not something created by a guy in his driveway.

 

I've no idea why anyone would do this type of thing, was there actually anything wrong with it?  The unfinished parts, the partially rubbed down area around the bridge, the messy filling of the machine head hole, the poorly filled machine head screw holes, the bad sanding on what's left of the headstock, the bad routing around the new bridge.  There's not a lot of wood left around the nut, so with screws holding down the whatever-it's-called-thingie at the ex-headstock end, the wood is going to lose a bit of structural strength. 

 

You can argue all you want that these retail for £2.5K, but let's face it, it's not really a Bongo anymore; for £2K (and a bit of patience and haggling), you could probably pick up a 6HH easily enough (a lava pearl 6HH model sold on Reverb recently for £1,500).

[NikNik]

20 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

 

It's not terrible, decent amateur attempt where nothing has gone badly wrong and nothing more really. We've all seen worse on this particular part of the forum but conversely there's also a lot of far more polished, accurate and skilled work from members on here who build instruments to a very high standard in their spare time. I don't think you're going to have much luck passing it off as a pro luthier job because, well... look at it.

 

As already mentioned it's a niche within a niche within a niche - how many people will want a headless Bongo 6er? Single digits probably. Now from that number think how many people will want to part with £2k for an instrument that needs a full refin. The potential customer base is probably zero unfortunately. I'd take the body off, sand it back and stain it to at least get it saleable for a little bit of elbow grease and minimal cost. Maybe introduce some softer lines in the headstock part too, for all its inherent ugliness the Bongo is a bass with some nicely flowing lines, those harsh angles look out of place.

Seconded.
 

Unfair, also, to compare seller to PCsGC

[PriZeMaN]

9 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

Thing is, hardware and labour account for nothing really.  People want originality at the hands of the maker, not something created by a guy in his driveway.

 

I've no idea why anyone would do this type of thing, was there actually anything wrong with it?  The unfinished parts, the partially rubbed down area around the bridge, the messy filling of the machine head hole, the poorly filled machine head screw holes, the bad sanding on what's left of the headstock, the bad routing around the new bridge.  There's not a lot of wood left around the nut, so with screws holding down the whatever-it's-called-thingie at the ex-headstock end, the wood is going to lose a bit of structural strength. 

 

You can argue all you want that these retail for £2.5K, but let's face it, it's not really a Bongo anymore; for £2K (and a bit of patience and haggling), you could probably pick up a 6HH easily enough (a lava pearl 6HH model sold on Reverb recently for £1,500).

The unfinished parts, the partially rubbed down area around the bridge, the messy filling of the machine head hole, the poorly filled machine head screw holes, the bad sanding????

All the filling is glass level, what are you chatting about, seriously dude what are you talking about?? The routing is set square level, it's just the poly paint that has randomly fractured from machining. You literally are making stuff up on the fly, who are you... Dr.Fauci?

[Frank Blank]

9 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

Thing is, hardware and labour account for nothing really.  People want originality at the hands of the maker, not something created by a guy in his driveway.

I crashed my Volvo 200GL on my driveway this morning. Completely ruined front grille and bonnet, will need a new axle and gearbox. Currently on sale for £33,000 o.n.o.

[theplumber]

£2000!!!! For f**k sake!!   

[lemmywinks]

1 minute ago, Frank Blank said:

I crashed my Volvo 200GL on my driveway this morning. Completely ruined front grille and bonnet, will need a new axle and gearbox. Currently on sale for £33,000 o.n.o.

 

This is an obvious lie, if you crashed your Volvo in your drive you would be fixing the garden wall, not the car.

[Frank Blank]

22 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

This is an obvious lie, if you crashed your Volvo in your drive you would be fixing the garden wall, not the car.

Ah, apologies, two points I forgot to include seem to have led to this confusion. a) my driveway is made of tungsten and b) my Volvo 200GL is the 1983 iteration which, I'm sure you remember, was built entirely out of tofu.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Frank Blank

[dyerseve]

14 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

I crashed my Volvo 200GL on my driveway this morning. Completely ruined front grille and bonnet, will need a new axle and gearbox. Currently on sale for £33,000 o.n.o.

If you highlighted to new potential owners that it also has the "feature" of needing a complete new spray job which they have to arrange and pay for, you could easily ask £35k!

[Frank Blank]

Just now, dyerseve said:

If you highlighted to new potential owners that it also has the "feature" of needing a complete new spray job which they have to arrange and pay for, you could easily ask £35k!

This is very true. I could also add another 1K for the nodding dog toy on the dash which, fortunately, no longer nods.

[NancyJohnson]

9 hours ago, PriZeMaN said:

The unfinished parts, the partially rubbed down area around the bridge, the messy filling of the machine head hole, the poorly filled machine head screw holes, the bad sanding????

All the filling is glass level, what are you chatting about, seriously dude what are you talking about?? The routing is set square level, it's just the poly paint that has randomly fractured from machining. You literally are making stuff up on the fly, who are you... Dr.Fauci?

 

I'd prefer to be Fauci than Trump, I suppose.

 

Let's try and address the salient points here. 

 

#1 The headstock.  You've compromised the strength of the neck behind the nut by routing so much off to accommodate the string anchor unit - how much wood is there diagonally where you've cut it out at the right angle?  Less than a centimetre?  The screws (eight?) will also compromise the fibres in the wood.  The dowel you used to plug the old B-string hole has left ugly black marks (this may be grease/lubricant used by MusicMan to get the original ferrule in).  The old string anchor hole (filled) is visible.  I'm not certain, but have you shaved so much off that an original machine head screw hole is showing?

 

 

#2 The front and rear of the headstock.  I think this speaks for itself.  The black witness line of the undercoat finish on the rear, the 'glass smooth' filled holes.  The visible dowel front and rear.  Honestly, 

 

 

#3  The new bridge (#1).  While I don't doubt the hardware looks fairly robust, in your attempt to hide the scar left by the original bridge, you've rubbed back the original finish with a high grit paper and ruined the original finish; this is possibly to flatten the surface to accommodate a flat-plate of some sort for the new bridge to ride on?  I'm unsure whether this could be buffed out, but it looks terrible. 

 

 

#4  The new bridge (#2).  The rubbing back I mentioned above is clear here.  Looking from this angle it looks like you've slipped with the router or there's been some chipping of the finish by the low B-string tuner.  There's also an unfilled hole by the high-B tuner.  Absence of any finish in the routed out area.  I'm assuming this bass will be played sitting down as there's no strap button.

 

 

#5  Rear of the bridge.  Words fail me.  It's like you've free-handed the router.  I'm assuming you masked off the area with tape of some sort and when you pulled it off it tore away the lacquer.  Good grief.

 

 

If you'd had a catastrophic headstock break and wanted to try to get it customised rather than sourcing a new neck, then I'm sure one of the builders here could have fashioned something original under your directorship, this though?  Nah.  It's awful. 

 

[PriZeMaN]

49 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

I'd prefer to be Fauci than Trump, I suppose.

 

Let's try and address the salient points here. 

 

#1 The headstock.  You've compromised the strength of the neck behind the nut by routing so much off to accommodate the string anchor unit - how much wood is there diagonally where you've cut it out at the right angle?  Less than a centimetre?  The screws (eight?) will also compromise the fibres in the wood.  The dowel you used to plug the old B-string hole has left ugly black marks (this may be grease/lubricant used by MusicMan to get the original ferrule in).  The old string anchor hole (filled) is visible.  I'm not certain, but have you shaved so much off that an original machine head screw hole is showing?

 

 

#2 The front and rear of the headstock.  I think this speaks for itself.  The black witness line of the undercoat finish on the rear, the 'glass smooth' filled holes.  The visible dowel front and rear.  Honestly, 

 

 

#3  The new bridge (#1).  While I don't doubt the hardware looks fairly robust, in your attempt to hide the scar left by the original bridge, you've rubbed back the original finish with a high grit paper and ruined the original finish; this is possibly to flatten the surface to accommodate a flat-plate of some sort for the new bridge to ride on?  I'm unsure whether this could be buffed out, but it looks terrible. 

 

 

#4  The new bridge (#2).  The rubbing back I mentioned above is clear here.  Looking from this angle it looks like you've slipped with the router or there's been some chipping of the finish by the low B-string tuner.  There's also an unfilled hole by the high-B tuner.  Absence of any finish in the routed out area.  I'm assuming this bass will be played sitting down as there's no strap button.

 

 

#5  Rear of the bridge.  Words fail me.  It's like you've free-handed the router.  I'm assuming you masked off the area with tape of some sort and when you pulled it off it tore away the lacquer.  Good grief.

 

 

If you'd had a catastrophic headstock break and wanted to try to get it customised rather than sourcing a new neck, then I'm sure one of the builders here could have fashioned something original under your directorship, this though?  Nah.  It's awful. 

 

Hello

#1 : 15mm is ample and I'm sure that the ETS screws do not compromise the integrity. The dowel was less than 1mm recessed and now has a decent wood filler that is mirror flat and doesn't compromise anything.

#2 It's glass smooth and flat...end of. Come and feel the bass in person, I can guarantee it.

#3 Of couse I've ruined the original finish..IT NEEDS TO BE REPAINTED, what are you not understanding, have you even read the original advert?

#4 That whole section is a tight and precise basswood shelf and is nothing what you have mentioned. The old fixings from the original plate are wide set with brass inserts and needed to be pilot drilled out and then plugged and filled, which I have done smooth as silk. Only holes left are the scratch plate ones that I've left in case the new owner wants them. I put in a strap button the other day, it took me minutes, thanks for your observation but it really doesn't matter.

#5 See #3 The wood is super flat and yes the paint is fractured making the edge look wobbly but it's not!

The only thing that's awful is your incorrect opinions.

 

Put down the keyboard and pick up your bass, you can never go wrong with tapping on a bass.

LOVE...PriZeMaN

[binky_bass]

I think this is all verging on the edge of a slanging match. 

 

The takeaway points here, as I understand them, are:

 

1: Seller is not hiding the fact that the bass needs refinishing - in fact this is clearly mentioned with, what seems to me, a very fair estimated cost for a professional refinish (£500), therefore damage to the original finish is somewhat a moot point.

 

2: This is not to everyone's taste. It's not to my taste. The seller can sell what they want at whatever price they want. Whether they stand a chance of achieving that price is another matter. If I were the seller, I'd take some of the points mentioned here to aid me in minor tweaks to make the bass far more sellable.

 

3: Sometimes innovation is achieved by a seemingly crazy idea. The thought of hacking up a very good condition and very expensive bass is crazy to some... @PriZeMaN did what he did because he wanted to do it, and why not!

 

4: The 'craftsmanship'. I can't attest to that as I don't frankly know if the headstock routing to accommodate the string clamp has undermined the structural integrity of the top of the neck - what I can say is that I think 95% of us don't have the skills to have done what @PriZeMaN has done, regardless of our thoughts on the end product.

 

Personally, I would not buy this. I've voiced my reasons why. Hypotheticallly, if the seller changed the headstock to a standard headless 'straight cut' shape and finished the bass so it looked shiny and new, then maybe I'd consider going to take a look.

 

My personal thoughts is that at the asking price, in its current state, this simply will not sell. But I wish the seller the best of luck!

Edited December 21, 2022 by binky_bass

[oldslapper]

So in summary, this is now a Bong, yes? 
 

 

[oldslapper]

@PriZeMaN your skill set is a lot further on than mine.

Fair play to you for making the modifications yourself. And as others have said, it’s your property and you can ask whatever you want for it. GLWTS 

[tauzero]

On 20/12/2022 at 13:21, NancyJohnson said:

You can argue all you want that these retail for £2.5K, but let's face it, it's not really a Bongo anymore; for £2K (and a bit of patience and haggling), you could probably pick up a 6HH easily enough (a lava pearl 6HH model sold on Reverb recently for £1,500).

 

But then I'd have to cut the headstock off.

[prowla]

I think it's great that people are prepared to have a go and muck about with things.

However, there is a disconnect between the idea that you can bodge something and the expectation that you can then expect to command a premium price for the result.

Would anybody like to offer me £2k for this creation of mine?

 

[Happy Jack]

That's an 8-string uke-bass, right? 

 

😂

[prowla]

3 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

That's an 8-string uke-bass, right? 

 

😂

I think the term is a "mandotar"!

[dyerseve]

14 hours ago, prowla said:

I think it's great that people are prepared to have a go and muck about with things.

However, there is a disconnect between the idea that you can bodge something and the expectation that you can then expect to command a premium price for the result.

Would anybody like to offer me £2k for this creation of mine?

 

I would like to offer you £2K for your creation. Sadly though it seems to be well executed, completed and fully painted. More fool you!

[Dan Dare]

Will it work if you have "big hands"?