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Al Krow

Loyalty doesn't need to cost

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2 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Remember reading some of that thread few weeks ago. Does make a lot of sense but does my Berg HT322 cab not do the same. It has a 12, 2x10's and horn with crossover ? Obviously its powered from the amp rather than a built in cab power amp.

Maybe i'm missing the point in the argument but happy to listen. 

Dave

 

If you imagine the frequency response of the cab, a FRFR cab is tuned to be absolutely flat (although it's usually more successful with powered cabs because DSP can be used to flatten the response). Whilst your cab has drivers to cater for the different frequencies, it will still have inherent lumps and bumps in it's frequency response.

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Just now, Al Krow said:

I've got a Barefaced cab. 

And some RCF active speakers. 

I think that qualifies as pretty FRFR, right? 

On one count.

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13 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Very juicy!

Now where did I leave my feather duster? 😁

Yes - it could do with a spring clean, couldn’t it.  

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2 minutes ago, peteb said:

The new and the old Markbass stuff are very much different beasts. I've got the LM3 and had a couple of great MB combos (103 & 102) - all Italian produced, non Class D. 

You run your mpulse pretty much the same as I do mine, but I'm using a 4 ohm cab (maybe the master on my amp creeps up to 1 o'clock at most places). I also use the semi-para EQ all the time. 

Running the Mpulse almost flat with maybe 1 o'clock on bass and sometimes same on mid or treble depending on bass i'm using.

Recently tweaked the low mids up a bit on the para EQ but not used it with the band as yet to see how it sounds.

I do use the EQ on my Sandberg quite a bit between different songs.

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1 minute ago, ead said:

Folks may know I'm partial to an ACG.  Alan made this for me in 2015 and it has been a faithful companion ever since.  Hard to see me ever letting it go.

Pretty much a 70s J bass configuration except the passive electronics are V/T/4-way switch.  This gives me either p/up soloed or both series or parallel.  P/ups themselves are overwould single coils.  Cracking bass, and about 8lbs in weight too,

IMG_20200320_153514.thumb.jpg.f1bc5b7eac24b6f47302ea857aa7c755.jpg

Lovely bass!

But in this case, loyalty can't have been cheap! 😁 

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2 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Or have one and use the volume knob

That's what I've always done, until I got my BF one10's. Since Lockdown #1 my home rig has been 1 One10 and an 800 watt Thunderfunk amp.

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6 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

If you imagine the frequency response of the cab, a FRFR cab is tuned to be absolutely flat (although it's usually more successful with powered cabs because DSP can be used to flatten the response). Whilst your cab has drivers to cater for the different frequencies, it will still have inherent lumps and bumps in it's frequency response.

Surely all cabs are tuned for what they are to be used for ?

The bit i dont follow is why a PA cab is better tuned than a decent bass cab if i'm only using the cabs for bass.

EDITED to say i think i follow you now that i've thought about it. A good quality PA cab is electronically tuned to give a flat response for that particular cab assuming that's what DSP does.

Some new terminology and abbreviations used that i'm not acquainted with cause i'm old school.

Dave

Edited by dmccombe7

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1 minute ago, dmccombe7 said:

Surely all cabs are tuned for what they are to be used for ?

The bit i dont follow is why a PA cab is better tuned than a decent bass cab if i'm only using the cabs for bass.

Dave

If you only want the one prebaked sound... but what if I told you, you could carry one cab around and get the sound of a 1x10, 1x12, 2x12, 3x12, 4x12, 2x10, 1x15, 4x10, 8x10... etc 

You may only want one sound - but what about that guitarist who wants to go from a little Fender Deluxe to a Marshall stack...  How about if you wanted a little Ampeg B15... and then a SVT 8x10... and you achieve it with just one cab?

It's not for everybody - but opens up a lot of options to you in a portable package.

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11 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Surely all cabs are tuned for what they are to be used for ?

The bit i dont follow is why a PA cab is better tuned than a decent bass cab if i'm only using the cabs for bass.

Dave

It's not better. And you'll need a very decent PA speaker to compete with a decent bass cab, for purely bass use. But there are potential cost savings and the ability to get everything mixed perfectly. 

I think there are pros and cons to both approaches and you will find some very content FRFR users and plenty (like me) who stick to a dedicated bass rig. 

Big topic! Best jump on that thread, if you're interested - it's been done in a LOT of detail

Edited by Al Krow
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Ignoring my bitsas (as the missus tries to....), my longest keeper bass was also my cheapest - I think I paid £200 around 20 years ago.  Factory fretless Ovation Magnum 1.     It probably wouldn't be seen as a budget bass now, but nobody wanted them then.   I'm lucky enough to also own a Wal mk 1 custom fretless and Kramer 450B fretless, but if I had to go down to one - it would be the Ovation staying.

Ovation Magnum 1 fretless 2.JPG

Picture 009.jpg

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That is high praise indeed if your Ovation is more of a keeper than your Wal Mk1!

Please don't mention this to @OliverBlackman, but I actually feel similarly about my £550 Yamaha 1025 vs my three higher end basses.

Fortunately neither of us are being forced to choose! 

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4 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

So what's your favourite colour for a bass?

Blue, hence why i dont use any of the white ones anymore 😂

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1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Lovely bass!

But in this case, loyalty can't have been cheap! 😁 

Well you might think that, but it cost me under £1k, less than the price of a new Fender Am Std at the time.  Not too awful to contemplate.

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19 minutes ago, ead said:

Well you might think that, but it cost me under £1k, less than the price of a new Fender Am Std at the time.  Not too awful to contemplate.

No it's not, I agree! 

We seem to be settling, as a group, on £1k as being the de facto boundary between normal and boutique. Is that what folk would typically consider to be their "price boundary" (albeit no doubt blurred at the edges!)?

But it's kinda funny, 'cos my Ibby SR Premium for me is a goto workhorse bass and I wouldn't have considered it in any shape or form as being "boutique" even though it cost me a fraction over £1k new.

Edited by Al Krow

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22 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Blue, hence why i dont use any of the white ones anymore 😂

@Stub Mandrel go on, ask him what his favourite musical instrument is? 😁

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13 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

No it's not, I agree! 

We seem to be settling, as a group, on £1k as being the de facto boundary between normal and boutique. Is that what folk would typically consider to be their "price boundary" (albeit no doubt blurred at the edges!)?

But it's kinda funny, 'cos my Ibby SR Premium for me is a goto workhorse bass and I wouldn't have considered it in any shape or form as being "boutique" even though it cost me a fraction over £1k new.

For something to be boutique surely a cost shelf is the wrong metric.

Isnt the point of boutique it has had more attention lavished upon it and is personalised and thus not off the shelf.

For example for Fender, basically only Custom shop bases, or maybe a limited run like the sandblasted one and not parts thrown together is boutique.

Something like Maryusch.......bases where you spec every part is maybe boutique despite a lower cost than a proper luthiered one.

A bass which is mass produced, no matter the cost surely isn’t the same? 

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1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

If you only want the one prebaked sound... but what if I told you, you could carry one cab around and get the sound of a 1x10, 1x12, 2x12, 3x12, 4x12, 2x10, 1x15, 4x10, 8x10... etc 

You may only want one sound - but what about that guitarist who wants to go from a little Fender Deluxe to a Marshall stack...  How about if you wanted a little Ampeg B15... and then a SVT 8x10... and you achieve it with just one cab?

It's not for everybody - but opens up a lot of options to you in a portable package.

I see where you are coming from. Not sure its for me but i'd certainly like to try it out. What pre-amp are you using to get those different cab sounds. ?

Dave

 

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1 minute ago, dmccombe7 said:

I see where you are coming from. Not sure its for me but i'd certainly like to try it out. What pre-amp are you using to get those different cab sounds. ?

Dave

 

You'll need a modeller so you can switch up virtual heads and speaker cabs, so common choice for bass players is the Helix Stomp... but theres Kemper, Axe FX, Boss, Mooer, Zoom, Positive Grid etc...

Edited by EBS_freak
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21 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@Stub Mandrel go on, ask him what his favourite musical instrument is? 😁

And that too is blue and black, just like my fav Fender 😁

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My Vigier cost me £500 back in the day and I’ll never sell it. Think I’ve had it for 15 years now 👍🏼

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21 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

No it's not, I agree! 

We seem to be settling, as a group, on £1k as being the de facto boundary between normal and boutique. Is that what folk would typically consider to be their "price boundary" (albeit no doubt blurred at the edges!)?

But it's kinda funny, 'cos my Ibby SR Premium for me is a goto workhorse bass and I wouldn't have considered it in any shape or form as being "boutique" even though it cost me a fraction over £1k new.

For me boutique basses tend to start at £2k upwards and usually by luthiers who make limited numbers rather than a production line bass. More hand made if you like.

My Geddy CIJ Jazz cost £625 which is cheaper than any other bass i have at moment. 

£1k bass is for me a goto point and i work from there. Not saying all expensive basses are the best and certainly i've tried a few cheaper Yamahas or Squiers that would knock the socks of a £2k + bass.

I like the idea of gigging with cheaper basses if i can find one that is good enough quality and playability and then i don't need to worry about getting it knocked about a bit.

Dave

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7 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

For something to be boutique surely a cost shelf is the wrong metric.

Isnt the point of boutique it has had more attention lavished upon it and is personalised and thus not off the shelf.

For example for Fender, basically only Custom shop bases, or maybe a limited run like the sandblasted one and not parts thrown together is boutique.

Something like Maryusch.......bases where you spec every part is maybe boutique despite a lower cost than a proper luthiered one.

A bass which is mass produced, no matter the cost surely isn’t the same? 

I think you're right.  I like custom basses (when I have saved enough up) as I can have what I like and in the certain knowledged it will be made by a person for the most part.  My most expensive ACG was still about £1k less than a Custom Shop Jazz and dare I say a bit prettier too :)

658792313_RetroB03.thumb.jpg.1360a8161fff985889a09f367de5eea6.jpg

Maruszczyk basses are interesting and for me are more mass customisation than boutique but no less worthy by any standards.

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25 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Not saying all expensive basses are the best and certainly I've tried a few cheaper Yamahas or Squiers that would knock the socks of a £2k + bass.

Aaaaaand seamlessly back on topic!

(Please check the bass in the OP).

Sir, you're a genius. I don't care what anyone else says.

😁

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50 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

£1k bass is for me a goto point and i work from there. Not saying all expensive basses are the best and certainly i've tried a few cheaper Yamahas or Squiers that would knock the socks of a £2k + bass.

I like the idea of gigging with cheaper basses if i can find one that is good enough quality and playability and then i don't need to worry about getting it knocked about a bit.

Have you really found many cheapo Yamahas or Squiers that were that good? I know that some early Squiers or Tokai basses were reckoned to be better than some of the new Fenders at the time (which in the 80s wasn’t saying much), but I’ve yet to find any that were anything special – gigable, maybe if you swapped out the pickups, but not great by any means.

My go-to bass is the one I paid the most money for, which was why I paid so much for it (secondhand of course). It’s got plenty of dings now, but who gives a f**k. It plays / sounds great and the reason that I bought it was to do gigs, not sit in the corner of a room…

Edited by peteb
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56 minutes ago, ead said:

I think you're right.  I like custom basses (when I have saved enough up) as I can have what I like and in the certain knowledged it will be made by a person for the most part.  My most expensive ACG was still about £1k less than a Custom Shop Jazz and dare I say a bit prettier too :)

658792313_RetroB03.thumb.jpg.1360a8161fff985889a09f367de5eea6.jpg

Maruszczyk basses are interesting and for me are more mass customisation than boutique but no less worthy by any standards.

That’s a cracking bass.

I threw maruysh........ in the mix, but I agree with mass customisation as more appropriate.

Here’s one - for Boutique does it need that special hands on flavour?

If a CNC machine hits it, does it discount it therefore making it less hand finished?

A neck being Plek’d is different IMO

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