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redbandit599

Barefaced 210 - which way up?

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Hi all, just an innocent question...hopefully not a GAS starter...as I like my Bergs 😏

However, I've wondered about the Barefaced 210,  and which way up any owners gig them?

I can see vertical working with a small head, but probably not with a 'classic' sized lump balanced on top.

That then makes me think that if they are horizontal, well they aren't very tall - How does (did☹️) that work out in the typical pub scenario when you are stood on top of your amp? It looks like everything is going past your ankles, or is dispersion that good?

Edited by redbandit599

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Yep thanks @mep, I've read that - I wouldn't fancy balancing my ABM vertically though.

Did you use it horizontally in the 'standing on top' of it type of gig - in your experience how did it compare to vertical? Any difference?

Edited by redbandit599

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TBH I didn't notice much difference between the 2. My head is an Ashdown RM 500 evo 2 so works either way for me. Once I had it horizontal and raised it up a bit on some seating and the port was facing our drummer and he knew about it !

  • Haha 2

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1 hour ago, redbandit599 said:

 

I can see vertical working with a small head, but probably not with a 'classic' sized lump balanced on top.

IMG_5540.thumb.jpg.3df9d1c2e9266fc9305e6398188e05c8.jpg

Edited by Bankai
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33 minutes ago, redbandit599 said:

Have you gigged it both ways? That looks a bit top heavy to me. Bet it sounds lush though.

Negative, I’ve always used it this way. It’s heavy enough that there was no risk of it moving.

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I did an A-B with my old band, two Mesa Powerhouse 2x10s vertically against horizontally. I was lucky enough to have a very powerful all tube amp with a small enough footprint at the time to do it safely, a Mesa Prodigy.   

And the difference was pretty astounding. Nothing.

At least not the difference in clarity and projection I expected. I think like everything else, it will make a difference in some situations and not in others, there are no generic rules that can be determined by science because of the huge range of variables that will change with each room, even each song (I suspect Bill Fitzmaurice will punish me for that comment later).

There are however numerous cultural and aesthetic precedents - let's be honest here, no one wants to see a T-formation bass rig (sorry Bankai), and a lightweight 2x10 on it's side being apparently smothered by an SVT-II is not much better. Proportions folks. Big head, even bigger cab :)

The golden rules therefore

1. Stack your rig so that it looks good

2. Stack your rig so that it's safe and won't kill a punter (drummers and guitarists no so worried)

3. Stack your rig so that you and the band and ideally the audience can hear the bass 

Edited by Beedster
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1 hour ago, bertbass said:

I use mine vertically on an amp stand.  Sounds great.

Hadn't thought of that, I suppose you could stick it horizontally on an amp stand too if you wanted to avoid 'overhang' from a wider amp.

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I think I remember Alex saying it doesn't make any difference what way you stack them. I generally stack them horizontally as I have mostly big valve heads . 

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Horizontal placement halves the angle of horizontal dispersion in the mids, and causes comb filtering in the highs. That's why the PA cluster array went the way of the dinosaurs, replaced by line arrays. However, this isn't audible to you, because you're too close to the cab. It won't be noticeable to the audience either if you're in the PA. It's a far greater concern with guitar than bass, since guitar is all mids and highs. If Leo Fender would have had training in acoustics and known this then from day one his amps with multiple speakers would have placed them vertical, with the dimensions of the heads configured accordingly. But Leo wasn't an acoustical engineer, he was a machinist. At that he excelled, but where speaker technology was concerned he winged it

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I'm sure one of the two speakers in the two10 is very mid biased, with the other more bass centred. So, the only difference I could possibly envisage is a slightly more mid, or more bass sound depending on which of the speakers you have at the top of the stack.

In reality though, I doubt anyone could tell.

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20 hours ago, redbandit599 said:

Yep thanks @mep, I've read that - I wouldn't fancy balancing my ABM vertically though.

Did you use it horizontally in the 'standing on top' of it type of gig - in your experience how did it compare to vertical? Any difference?

 

when I got mine and tested both orientations I found that in vertical orientation, with the port firing downwards, the low end was a bit tighter, less prominent, and I liked that sound the most. But it's not such a huge difference that one is great and the other terrible. 

In practice, I mostly use them vertically (one, or two cabs stacked), but when I had to stack two horizontally (wobbly festival 'stage') I did notice the dispersion on stage was better than what I was expecting from a 410.

I used a single Two10 horizontally only once, with a little stand to angle it towards me, and placed a few metres in front of me, like a monitor, and that was very good too.

In short... possibilities possibilities. :)

 

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3 minutes ago, la bam said:

I'm sure one of the two speakers in the two10 is very mid biased, with the other more bass centred. So, the only difference I could possibly envisage is a slightly more mid, or more bass sound depending on which of the speakers you have at the top of the stack.

In reality though, I doubt anyone could tell.

 

The left speaker is the 'full range' one (not really full range, but not 'modified', if you will), and the other is highpassed. This means when you stack them as a standard 410, the leftmost two speakers form a 'miniarray' of sorts and avoid the usual comb-filtering of 410s where all speakers are the same.

I use a pair vertically usually, so I'm not sure what the effect of that will be, but it sounds good to me.

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2 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Horizontal placement halves the angle of horizontal dispersion in the mids, and causes comb filtering in the highs. That's why the PA cluster array went the way of the dinosaurs, replaced by line arrays. However, this isn't audible to you, because you're too close to the cab. It won't be noticeable to the audience either if you're in the PA. It's a far greater concern with guitar than bass, since guitar is all mids and highs. If Leo Fender would have had training in acoustics and known this then from day one his amps with multiple speakers would have placed them vertical, with the dimensions of the heads configured accordingly. But Leo wasn't an acoustical engineer, he was a machinist. At that he excelled, but where speaker technology was concerned he winged it

How about when they’re diagonally placed in cabs, Bill, there seems to be a fair few of these entering the market lately. Is it due to what you’ve described or space-saving/looks?

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I have a small head, so I asked for the badge to be put on for vertical orientation.  Loves it!

I’ve heard recently that you can now get the guitar cab fonted badge - now that would look cool!

4B0374C7-472F-4A62-B0A6-D7D4D8F78CE0.jpeg

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I put one of my Barefaced stickers on in the vertical position, so I ave both options going for me!P1030107.thumb.JPG.76f29d3b3c1f9020245f4702229220c6.JPG

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You don't have to put the head atop the cabinet/s.  I used to try to stand mine vertically alongside the cab. Still accessible,  but it can't fall or be pulled off, and hopefully it's subject to less vibration than if its on a cabinet. 

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2 hours ago, Pea Turgh said:

I have a small head, so I asked for the badge to be put on for vertical orientation.  Loves it!

I’ve heard recently that you can now get the guitar cab fonted badge - now that would look cool!

4B0374C7-472F-4A62-B0A6-D7D4D8F78CE0.jpeg

Peterson (spelling ?)  Combo... I always wanted one of those when I was a youth. Cool. 

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As long as you don't put it upside down, it'll be fine.

 

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12 hours ago, Marvin said:

As long as you don't put it upside down, it'll be fine.

 

Oh, I don't know the port is just the size to hold a pint glass without spilling any beer 😂,and the cab vibes keeps the head on my Guinness very nicely 😂😂😂😂😂.

 

I'll get my coat 🤐

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